2.0L 8V HP was: cincy 2k+4 photo collection request /hosting - update

[jason at scirocco.org (Jason)]

At 07:33 AM 6/12/2003, Dan Bubb wrote:
>This combination is good for 132 wHP @ 6200.

<snip>
Very impressive...


>I've also run the ABA with a stock head, G cam, CIS combination and I can
>tell you it has nowhere near the top end power of my current engine and the
>peak power RPM must be below 5700 although I never dynoed it.
>
>The 2.0L with stock head and G cam is a torque monster, but the head just
>doesn't breath well enough for much top end.
>
>Not trying to kick sand cause we all start with stock Sciroccos and work our
>way up the power ladder, but I'm thinking a little speedo calibration is in
>order.

I agree.  The only way to really find out what your motor is putting out is 
to dyno it.  Short of doing that, it's anyone's guess:  I was at a dyno day 
years ago where people insisted that TT exhausts gave them all kind of 
power, etc, but then they dynoed 10hp less than my stock motor.  Ass-Dyno 
unfortunately doesn't work. :(

At any rate, it takes a lot of HP to get a few little MPH in top speed.

With 257hp to the wheels in his 1.8T, Josh Ables should see about 157mph / 
253 km/h in his 1.8T (without the wing of course).  He added more than 150 
wHP compared to a stock 1.8 16V, and got only 34mph for his troubles.  The 
15 or so wHP that you get from swapping a 2.0 16V in place of a 1.8 16V 
will only get you about 7mph (11 km/h).

First thing's first though:  Dyno the car, send me the numbers, and I'll 
get back to you. :-)
Jason




>Dan
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Patrick Bureau <txrocco@sbcglobal.net>
> > To: Jason <jason@scirocco.org>
> > Cc: <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 6:13 PM
> > Subject: RE: cincy 2k+4 photo collection request / hosting - update
> >
> >
> > > Well how about I tell you the 2L hybrid has a 4-2-1 exhaust 2" pipe not
> > cat to bosal muffler, lightened flywheel, and a G grind cam in it. audi
>500
> > TB with knock box etc..
> > >
> > > wheel are 15x7 / 205/50/15 v rated.
> > >
> > > I was not toped out at 224KPH @ 6400 we ran into traffic...
> > > calculate again please : )
> > >
> > > Jason <jason@scirocco.org> wrote:
> > > At 04:40 PM 6/11/2003, Patrick Bureau wrote:
> > > Oh Jason I was not taking it that way, but now you got me intrigued.
> > > Cool. :)
> > >
> > >
> > > well if ya get all technical on me then you tell me...
> > > I'll do my best...
> > >
> > >
> > > 3.67 final gear tranny 9a. and I was at 6400RPM
> > > K, that's a 3.67 R+P and an 0.89 5th.
> > > With a stock tire size, 6400rpm would put you right at 210 km/h.  (Which
> > is miraculously -- and admittedly completely coincidentally -- close to
>the
> > 211 I said in the last mail...)
> > >
> > >
> > > maybe I need to find a cop.... he can tell me... (grin) could be worth
> > it...
> > > then again I could just get a dyno...
> > > Yeah, the cop might not be such a good idea. <smirk>
> > > But a dyno run is always the best way to know. :)
> > >
> > > Okay, if your car actually topped out at 6400rpm in 5th / 210 km/h, we
>can
> > estimate how much power you were putting to the ground (assuming, again,
> > stock tire size and aerodynamics)...
> > >
> > > Calculation:
> > > You'd need about 1590N of force to the ground to combat that air and
> > rolling resistance...  which would equal ~450Nm of force to your wheels,
> > which would equal ~332 Lb-Ft of torque at your wheels, which would be
>about
> > 101.5 lb-ft of torque when reduced by your gearing.  101.5 lb-ft of torque
> > at 6400rpm = 123.8 hp.
> > >
> > > Result:
> > > You'd need (very approximately) 124hp @ 6400rpm to the wheels to achieve
> > 210km/h in a Scirocco.
> > > For comparison purposes, a stock 1.8 16V that puts 105hp to the wheels
>(at
> > 5750rpm) only puts down about 86hp at 6400rpm.   (And a stock 2.0 16V that
> > puts 121hp to the wheels (at 5500rpm) only puts 105hp down at 6400rpm.
> > >
> > > So my guess is that your 2.0 is running a very aggressive cam, no?
> > > Jason
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jason <jason@scirocco.org> wrote:
> > >    At 11:55 AM 6/11/2003, ATS - Patrick Bureau wrote:
> > >    >what do you mean innacurate.. ?
> > >    >chasing that GSR was not a peice of cake and we were flying on the
> > road.. :)
> > >    Oh I don't doubt that you were flying.. :)
> > >
> > >
> > >    224 km/h in a Scirocco (Cd=0.38, A=1.68m^2) is a very tough number to
> > >    achieve, though. To hit it, you would have to put just a hair over
> > 150hp
> > >    to the wheels at that speed, which with a 3.94 R+P and an 0.80 5th
>gear
> > >    (for example), would be ~6700rpm.
> > >
> > >
> > >    Not that I haven't heard from many sources that your car is fast as
> > shit,
> > >    but my guess is that the Kamei kit turns your Cd into more like 0.40
>or
> > >    0.42, which would increase that number somewhat more.
> > >
> > >
> > >    To my recollection, I've only seen a dyno result of a naturally
> > aspirated
> > >    4-cylinder VW over 150whp once, and that was Brett. (Forgive me if
> > there
> > >    are more of you out there -- I think Riley McDowall and Shannon
>Fenton
> > may
> > >    have been around the 150 mark, too)...
> > >
> > >
> > >    Brett peaked at 150.8whp @ 6750rpm... With his 3.89 R+P and 0.75 5th,
> > he
> > >    should see a top speed of 221 km/h (137mph). [An 0.80 5th would,
> > >    coincidentally, bump that number up to 224 km/h... The increase self
> > >    evident, of course, because as I said above, that speed would almost
> > >    exactly coincide with his HP peak]
> > >
> > >
> > >    Either case, German auto makers generally build in 5-7% positive
>error
> > in
> > >    their speedometers... (Under German law, they can have between 0 and
>7%
> > >    positive error, but no negative error.) They all do it - BMW is
> > notorious
> > >    for ridiculous error at high speeds. An indicated 224 was probably
> > >    actually around 211km/h, or 131mph... which is a FANTASTIC
>achievement
> > in
> > >    any Scirocco... much less an 8V, which likely has its power peak
>below
> > that
> > >    of a cammed 16V like Brett's. (And had a stock top speed of around
>180
> > km/h!)
> > >
> > >
> > >    Not attacking your car at _all_ -- like I said, I heard from a number
> > of
> > >    people this weekend that your car was brutally fast!
> > >
> > >
> > >    Jason
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >    >ATS - Patrick Bureau - txrocco@sbcglobal.net
> > >    >Http://www.longcoeur.com/scirocco/
> > >    >============================================
> > >    >'85 2.0L Prowler Orange Kamei X1 Rocco
> > >    >'85 1.8L Titian Red Rocco (daily driver)
> > >    >'98 4.0L Jeep Cherokee
> > >    >'91 7.3L F250 diesel Super cab,8 Ft box.
> > >    >
> > >    >
> > >    >
> > >    >=>-----Original Message------
> > >    >=>From: Jason Cammisa [mailto:jcammisa@alwaysonline.net]
> > >    >=>Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 9:56 AM
> > >    >=>To: ATS - Patrick Bureau; Ken B; scirocco list
> > >    >=>Subject: RE: cincy 2k+4 photo collection request / hosting -
>update
> > >    >=>
> > >    >=>
> > >    >=>At 10:45 AM 6/11/2003, ATS - Patrick Bureau wrote:
> > >    >=>>yeah that is like almost 90 or close to it... I should of taken
> > pictures
> > >    >=>>when I was doing 224KPH the other day...nice round number on a
> > digifiz I
> > >    >=>>tell you...
> > >    >=>--0-1338643187-1055364022=:48503--
> > >
> > > ATS - Patrick Bureau - txrocco@sbcglobal.net
> > > http://www.longcoeur. com/scirocco/
> > > ==============================
> > > '85 2.0L Prowler orangeKamei X1 Rocco
> > > '85 1.8L Titian Red Daily Driver Rocco
> > > '98 4.0L Jeep Cherokee
> > > '91 7.5L Diesel F250 Super cab w/8ft bed.
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
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> >
> >
>
>
>
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