History repeats itself...?

[scirocco at vintagewatercooleds.com (scirocco@vintagewatercooleds.com)]

This greatly dissapoints me, and while I wouldn't write it in all caps,
the buyer needs to "put up or shut up".

Dan is absolutely correct here.

Allyn, if your post somehow makes you unwelcome at Cincy, then I don't
think I want to be there either.  You are right that this SHOULD be out in
the open at this time, and I hope it comes to an decent conclusion for
both parties involved.

-Eric

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006, Dan Bubb wrote:

> These cars have problem areas well known to listers. Buying one without checking those known problem areas and subsequently identifying one does NOT make the seller responsible for rectifying it!
> Also, these cars are 20 years old. They will have problems no matter how well they were maintained or resurrected. (witness my PITA 16V!)Unless you get a warranty from the seller, the problems are the buyer's problems!
>
> There is nothing that needs to be said about not paying for something you've purchased!
> Especially considering the offer to buy back the car.
> my $.02
> Dan
>
>
>
> From: "Allyn" <amalventano1@tds.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 8:18 AM
> Subject: History repeats itself...?
>
>
> > Fellow listers,
> >
> > I am disgusted by the very thought of even having to make this post, but I believe after reading it, you will find it was necessary
> > for the greater good that makes this list happen.
> >
> > I have recently been made aware of some rather crappy things that have been going on behind the scenes.  One of our fellow listers
> > is being taken advantage of - by another lister (unfortunately).  Since the involved party is nice-to-a-fault, and is hesitant to
> > "stir the pot," I am taking the initiative to make this post.  I have assembled the pertinent facts below, and tried to present them
> > in an unbiased manner, omitting names, such that other readers can formulate their own opinions on the matter:
> >
> > - (Sale of a Scirocco from one lister to another)
> > - The seller was not originally to be a seller - they simply were coordinating a sale of another local Scirocco to a remote lister.
> > - The buyer made a total deposit of $750 towards the local Scirocco.
> > - Buyer arrives in town, and when checking out local car, backs out of deal, as there turned out to be issues not originally known
> > before the sale.  Buyer offers local Scirocco owner $100 for trouble.
> > - Since the deal fell through, seller offers possibility of sale of their MK1, which was not yet running properly, with the backup
> > plan of offering to arrange for a rental car to get the buyer back home.
> > - Buyer comes up with a third option, offering to purchase the sellers MK2.
> > - Seller voices reservations about MK2 not being ready for sale, having not been driven for several months, and having parts they
> > wanted to keep, etc.
> > - Buyer works out deal with seller.  Seller keeps some parts, but leaves some other parts (euro bumpers, etc) on the car.  Deal is
> > for $2800.  Buyer offers to also purchase an intake manifold for $75, bringing total to $2875.
> > - Seller offers to later recoup the $650 from the Scirocco sale that fell through, accepting that as the down payment.  Buyer offers
> > to pay remaining balance in 3 payments, but seller feels that is too steep for the buyer, so seller mitigates payment plan to $500
> > per month for 4 months, with the leftover balance paid on the 5th month.  Seller also agrees to sign over title to facilitate
> > vehicle registration by buyer, doing so without even having the $650 down payment in-hand.  Also of note - the loan is interest
> > free.
> > - Upon leaving, buyer notes fuel leak while filling tank.  Fearing recall-related leak that would prevent buyer from safely making
> > trip home, seller offers tank from on-hand spare rear Scirocco clip.  Tanks are swapped.  Leak turned out to be from transfer pump
> > assembly o-ring seal.
> > - Seller throws in additional pair of rear shocks during fuel tank swap, as rear suspension was noted to be soft.
> > - After some further typical Scirocco-style road trip hiccups, buyer is on their way with a running and driving MK2 Scirocco.
> > - After buyer makes it home with the MK2.
> > - The buyer later discovers damage to front cross member (pre-existing damage that was unknown to buyer or seller).  Even though the
> > buyer is a capable welder, they get a repair quote for $700 for the repair, and present this figure to the seller.  The seller had
> > offered a replacement front cross member which they had on-hand, but this was turned down by the buyer.  Seller initially offered to
> > deduct $500 to help cover costs of the repair, but ended up deducting $700 following further complaints from the buyer.
> > - After further complaints from the buyer, seller feared list reputation would be damaged based on buyers list postings.  Sseller
> > offered to buy back the car.  After this point, complaints escalated suspiciously, including:
> > - Complaints of wiring issues.
> > - Complaints of missing various plastic interior clips.
> > - Complaints of slipping clutch.
> > - Claims of necessity to replace all front end bushings and engine mounts, even though those same parts were all replaced less than
> > 15k miles ago (during a 2.0 16v swap).  These parts were replaced by more than one lister, so their newness is a matter-of-fact.
> >
> > Note: seller is a fairly conservative driver (my opinion), while the buyer posts to the list about how they rev the engine to 8k to
> > see when the shift light comes on, and how they 'drop the hammer' while racing SUVs.
> >
> > Now for the really crappy part:  This car was sold many months ago.  The buyer received ONLY the $650 downpayment until just a few
> > days ago.  After repeated "the check is in the mail" assurances that never materialized, the seller had to resort to directly
> > calling the buyer.  The check finally arrived.  The check amount: $150
> >
> > Hearing that $150 figure from a fellow lister was, for me, the proverbial straw that broke the camels back.  I simply will not sit
> > back and watch as the buyer continues to bask in the friendship that this list provides, while simultaneously taking advantage of
> > one of our most generous members.  This whole situation reeks of the past Josh/Dirk dilemma that threatened the very well-being of
> > our community.  We didn't find out about that unfortunate situation until it was too late, but I'll be damned if I'm going to sit
> > back and watch as those events repeat themselves.
> >
> > This whole thing just irks me.  Why would someone stoop to such levels to try to weasel their way out of paying for something they
> > wanted (and supposedly still want)?  Why would someone complain so much after a final sale?  Mark and I traded some vehicles after
> > Cincy.  We agreed on the trade and shook hands like gentlemen.  We both had issues with our traded vehicles after the fact.  Did we
> > whine to the list about it?  NO.  Did we whine to each other about it?  NO.  We both knew the potential pitfalls of what we were
> > getting into.  We both knew we weren't out to screw each other over.  We both accepted responsibility for our actions and decisions.
> >
> > So, to the seller:
> > Hang in there.  I sincerely hope this post acts as a wake-up call to the buyer.
> >
> > And, to the buyer:
> > STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT A SALE THAT WAS FINAL, FOR A CAR THAT WAS NOT EVEN MEANT FOR SALE - ESPECIALLY WHERE YOU HAVE NOT EVEN PAID
> > THE BLODDY THING OFF!  IF YOU ARE UNHAPPY WITH THE PURCHASE AND THE SELLER HAS OFFERED TO BUY IT BACK - EITHER STICK TO YOUR PAYMENT
> > AGREEMENT OR GET YOUR MONEY BACK AND QUIT YOUR WHINING.
> >
> > I sincerely hope that our "fellow lister" makes this right, and does so in short order.  It deeply saddens me that I have
> > essentially pissed away a friendship (the buyer), and now face the possibility of feeling unwelcome at future Cincy events (friends
> > of the buyer), just for bringing this matter to light.  If I burned all of my list karma by making this post, then so be it - I will
> > still sleep better tonight knowing I did the right thing.
> >
> > Disgustedly,
> > Allyn Malventano, ETC, USN
> >
> >
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> >
>
>
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