Questions (solicitations of recommendations) on upgrade plans

[jtoomasson at yahoo.com (Jeff Toomasson)]

Tim - good to see you're asking the right questions. Dan made some good
points. I'll try to fill in my view.


> Fox intake (internally polished) and Audi 5k TB
> 4-2 old school ex. man.
> Eurosport flex/downpipe
>         2" Eurosport exhaust w/ hi-flow cat.
> 16v rear end/disks swap
>
> Here are the plans(#) and questions(a,b,c) per catagory:
>
> 1.) Build a 3A or ABA bottom end/ JH head engine (it would be great to
>     just drop in the entire 3A or ABA but I don't think I'll have enough
>     time/knowledge to try futzing w/ the wiring necessary. My knowledge of
>     either 3A or ABA is very limited -- heck, my JH knowledge is not much
>     better!)

As Dan mentioned, the 3A is better from an ease of installation standpoint.
But, they're harder to find (and probably more expensive). They also have
different operating characteristics. ABA has better torque and is generally
a smoother engine because of its longer stroke. The 3A is said to be a
"snappy" motor - what I take to mean  slightly more responsive, (possibly)
quicker to wind up. The 3A also has the advantage of having forged crank,
pistons, rods (more beneficial to the turbo setup. FWIW - I'm currently
building one of each. The ABA for the temporary N/A motor until I can get
the  $$$ together for the 3A/x-flow turbo.

If you end up getting an ABA, make it is of the "early" vintage (pre'96)
because they have the piston oil squirters. But IMHO, the ABA pistons are
flimsy and may not hold up over the long haul under a turbo setup...

> a.) Since it'll be a complete engine/tranny pull I'm going to be
>     interested in a new clutch and flywheel install.
>
> i.) Is a lightened flywheel available in various weights
>     or just lightened(8.5 lbs.)/un-lightened(15 lbs.?)?
>     [I'd like to get something in between those weights.
>     11.5-12.5 lbs. Could it be done on a lathe if not
>     available for purchase?]

I'm curious as to your rationale for not going with 8.5. Be that as it may,
I have not seen anything other the 8.5 for sale in recent months. As Dan
mentioned you could have a shop do it to your desired weight, but you may
ultimately end up spending more.

>        ii.) I've seen many references to a 16v pressure plate
>     being a good clutch upgrade. Are there any other
>     ancillary parts that would be necessary to fit this
>     upgrade on an 8v?
>       iii.) I've seen various types (and opinions) of clutches and
>     clutch manufacturers. Any that stand above the rest
>     from your experiences? Is the rep of Sachs clutches
>                     deserved?

I used to get hung up on this too. The 2.016v pressure plate is a great
upgrade for any 020 tranny. The disc selection boils down to which type of
tranny you have (8v or 16v - smaller vs larger input shaft, respectively).
But before you address that, you should get a 210mm disc regardless. The 8v
vs. 16v question will depend on your tranny. IIRC, the 9A has a smaller (8v)
input shaft (but don't quote me on that).

I would stay with the Sachs unit. Their reputation is tried and true. Don't
even think about a Sport disc or anything like that until you decide to go
turbo. You will not need a sport disc until about 160hp or so and I don't
know of very many 8v's that can get there N/A...

> b.) Since I have a spare JH sitting around (from a Jetta w/ pass.
>     side fuel management) I was thinking of getting it's head
>     worked up for the swap since it's unused ATM and that makes
>     the finished engine something that could be swapped in a day.
>
> i.) Any ball park idea what a P&P will run me? Should
>     I take the in/ex man. in w/ it to get port matching
>                     done?

$500-600 is typical for a quality job.

>        ii.) Would it be in my interest to get it shaved too?
>     (Would this get in the way of future turbo plans?
>                     e.g. Too much compression?)

If you have an extra head, P&P that one and shave if you want. If you decide
to go turbo, sell the P&P to recoup the cash and get another P&P'd
specifically for a FI application. The headwork is different. (On a forced
induction application, the polish is way more critical than the port whereas
under N/A, they're equally critical)
>       iii.) Any valve/seats/springs recommendations taking in
>     to account the possible future plans??

Stock JH head internals should be fine (even for turbo) unless you're
planning to run in serious competition.

> 2.) I'll be mating the above engine w/ a (maybe rebuilt) 9A 3.67 final
>     drive tranny that was pulled from a later 80's 8v Roc in a local
>     boneyard. I'd like to do at least a bolt kit and 5th swap (.80 or
>     .75) to it.

.75's are WAY more plentiful in the yards. If you're going to do a bolt kit,
you'll have to tear the tranny apart completely anyway.

> i.) Any recommendations on vendors for tranny rebuild kit/
>     5th gear purchase? (I've looked @ Autotech for 5th
>     swaps, but think it could be done for less initial
>     expense w/ quality that is just as good. The challenge
>     will be to make the "special" tool. Anybody out there
>     already have one that they could shoot me the specs on?
>     [length, I.D., O.D., etc.])

Don't know about the tool per se. Maybe someone has come up with a homemade
version?

>        ii.) While it's out and (maybe) torn up, are there any
>     other areas you think I should address besides the
>     bolt kit to combat SMS, 5th, and maybe a 80% LSD kit?
>       iii.) My present 4k has 90mm drive flanges and when the 9A
>     was pulled it came w/ 100mm drive flanges w/ axles
>     attached (they had no 3x square, BONUS!!!). Will I
>     have any problems w/ the size on the spline side of
>     the 100mm drive shaft?

Someone recently said that the splines aren't compatible, but my fuzzy-ass
memory points me otherwise. Double-check!  :)

> I'd like to work on the engine and tranny separately, mate them,
> pull my existing JH, and plop the new setup in and tune. Then I can build
> the other JH into something even weirder for the beater Roc.
> Does the sequence of events sound about right? There will be some
> other things being done too (touch up of engine bay paint, install
> new front motor mount from Eric, install the complete poly set I got from
> parts4vws, etc.) but that's the extent of the plans so far.
>
> Know of anything else I should consider while doing these things?
>

The list of things to consider is long and boring and I have to finish my
lunch!  :p

HTH, Jeff