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Questions (solicitations of recommendations) on upgrade plans
> -----Original Message-----
> From: scirocco-l-bounces@scirocco.org [mailto:scirocco-l-
> bounces@scirocco.org] On Behalf Of stetson
> Sent: January 21, 2004 1:35 PM
> To: scirocco list
> Subject: Questions (solicitations of recommendations) on upgrade plans
>
> 1.) Build a 3A or ABA bottom end/ JH head engine (it would be great to
> just drop in the entire 3A or ABA but I don't think I'll have
enough
> time/knowledge to try futzing w/ the wiring necessary.
This is the same swap I did. You will still have to futz with some
wiring if you want to do a "proper" install. Since the ABA/JH combo
yields a compression ratio of 10:1 it's generally recommended that you
graft in a knock sensing ignition system (popular choice is from HT/RD
code GTI/GLI 8v cars). This in and of itself isn't a huge job, but it's
about a 6/10 on the tricky scale. BUT, you don't have to swap in the
knock sensor stuff if you run at least 92 octane and keep your ignition
timing on the conservative side (max 6 deg btdc).
> i.) Is a lightened flywheel available in various weights
> or just lightened(8.5 lbs.)/un-lightened(15 lbs.?)?
> [I'd like to get something in between those weights.
> 11.5-12.5 lbs. Could it be done on a lathe if not
> available for purchase?]
First off, IIRC most stock flywheels weigh around 12-13 pounds.
Secondly, the ABA crank is heavier than a JH crank, so you will not feel
the difference as much. I lightened my own flywheel (worked at an
automotive machine shop) by taking down the 'lip' to the ring gear.
This will shave about 4 pounds from the flywheel. If you want less
removed (I don't know why though, cause you probably won't notice a
difference if you only shave 2 pounds from it), simply ask the machinist
to take off less material. I noticed a difference in rpm spool up/down,
but clutch "action" is barely different - nothing that you won't
instinctively adapt to after a day or two...
> ii.) I've seen many references to a 16v pressure plate
> being a good clutch upgrade. Are there any other
> ancillary parts that would be necessary to fit this
> upgrade on an 8v?
This is also what I did. There are no other parts, but you have to use
an 8v clutch disc. I'm very happy with it so far - no problems grabbing
the power my setup is putting out (I estimate somewhere close to 130
whp). You might want to look for the "triple strapped" 16v pressure
plate, as the single strap units apparently have not been as strong. I
believe the Pottermans www.parts4vws.com carry the triple strapped
version.
> iii.) I've seen various types (and opinions) of clutches
and
> clutch manufacturers. Any that stand above the rest
> from your experiences? Is the rep of Sachs clutches
> deserved?
There are all sorts of opinions out there on clutches. If I had the
extra cash I would probably opt for a Centreforce setup (don't know if
you can just buy a disc from them though). My friend Sean runs a Bully
PP/clutch in his car, and it grabs aggressively, but still has some
street manners (one side of the disc is organic). I've always run stock
Sachs clutches and have had good results, but if you're going for BIG
power a more aggressive setup might be a good investment.
> i.) Any ball park idea what a P&P will run me? Should
> I take the in/ex man. in w/ it to get port matching
> done?
One of the Brians on the list was organizing a group rate on P&Ping. I
did mine myself - I'm glad I did, I learned a lot. I bought a Standard
Abrasives http://www.sa-motorsports.com/diyport.htm kit, and a $18.95
electric die grinder off of Ebay.
If you do pay someone to do it, definitely bring in both manifolds and
gaskets. Expect to pay several hundred dollars to get this done.
P&Ping is very tedious work, I wouldn't want to do it every day! It
might also be a good idea to ask to get the head flow-benched afterwards
to prove the guy knows what he's doing and to make sure you have even
flow between cylinders...
> ii.) Would it be in my interest to get it shaved too?
> (Would this get in the way of future turbo plans?
> e.g. Too much compression?)
If you're going to turbo this combo in the future, don't shave the head.
As it stands 10:1 is too high to run anything more than 4-6 psi of
boost. Running Evans coolant will help.
I shaved my head about .050", which netted me about a 10.85:1 c/r
(cc'ed).
The stock ABA pistons can be machined for a drop in compression, or you
could use stacked/thicker headgaskets (not ideal). If you're thinking
of serious boost (anything over 10 psi) do it right and build up a
bottom end with forged pistons that are designed to bring the
compression ratio below 9:1 and handle the boost.
> iii.) Any valve/seats/springs recommendations taking in
> to account the possible future plans??
Get a multi-angle valve job, with .060" seat area if you want maximum
life - .040" if you want maximum power (stock is .080"). Head work
definitely falls into the category of "speed costs money, how fast do
you want to go". You could go nuts with titanium retainers, exotic
sodium filled valves, oversize valves/seats, etc. Stock springs are
fine if you're staying mild with the cam (ie: g-grind). If you're going
with a 276 or greater cam heavier springs are a good idea, especially if
you like to use the top end of the rev range.
> 2.) I'll be mating the above engine w/ a (maybe rebuilt) 9A 3.67 final
> drive tranny that was pulled from a later 80's 8v Roc in a local
> boneyard. I'd like to do at least a bolt kit and 5th swap (.80 or
> .75) to it.
>
> i.) Any recommendations on vendors for tranny rebuild
kit/
> 5th gear purchase? (I've looked @ Autotech for 5th
> swaps, but think it could be done for less initial
> expense w/ quality that is just as good. The
challenge
> will be to make the "special" tool. Anybody out
there
> already have one that they could shoot me the specs
on?
> [length, I.D., O.D., etc.])
Talk to our resident tranny expert Cheapass Ron about anything tanny
related..
> ii.) While it's out and (maybe) torn up, are there any
> other areas you think I should address besides the
> bolt kit to combat SMS, 5th, and maybe a 80% LSD
kit?
Quaife or Peloquin LSD if you have the cash...
> iii.) My present 4k has 90mm drive flanges and when the 9A
> was pulled it came w/ 100mm drive flanges w/ axles
> attached (they had no 3x square, BONUS!!!). Will I
> have any problems w/ the size on the spline side of
> the 100mm drive shaft?
IIRC you'll need to upgrade to a later steering knuckle to clear the
100mm outer (someone confirm this?). OR, you could do what I did, 100mm
inner cv's on 90mm axles. The 100mm inner is a bit longer so the inner
circlip grove will be covered. Others I talked to that did this said I
wouldn't have a problem since the cv can't really go anywhere, but I
staked mine in place just to be safe.
> I'd like to work on the engine and tranny separately, mate them,
> pull my existing JH, and plop the new setup in and tune. Then I can
build
> the other JH into something even weirder for the beater Roc.
> Does the sequence of events sound about right?
Sounds like a good plan. If you're going to swap in the knock sensing
ignition, I suggest getting it to work with your present setup before
the engine swap. That way if you're pulling your hair out trying to
figure out why your freshly swapped ABA/JH won't fire you can eliminate
the wiring...
> There will be some
> other things being done too (touch up of engine bay paint, install
> new front motor mount from Eric, install the complete poly set I got
from
> parts4vws, etc.) but that's the extent of the plans so far.
>
> Know of anything else I should consider while doing these things?
Replace the hard brake lines! It's SO easy with the engine out of the
way. I don't recall a more "satisfying" project - I liked the feeling
of having an entirely new braking system - very comforting. With ALL of
the Sciroccos I've owned over the years I never fully trusted the
braking systems - feeling like something could blow at any minute...
NAPA has bubble flare brake line in 1' increments up to 7'. You don't
need a tubing bender. Modern brake line is pretty kink resistant - just
go slow and easy...
Good luck! I'm sure you'll love the torque of a 2.0L. Try to get your
head P&P'ed though, as you might be disappointed with the power of the
base setup, considering the time and money you'll spend doing the swap.
Mark.
80 S
81 S 2.0 ABA/JH/4K
75 Paid for, just gotta pick it up!
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