Knock Sensor Conversion - Re: [TECH] 3a dyno in andIamdisappointed, sorta...

[jdbubb at ix.netcom.com (Dan Bubb)]

You can't use the ABA distributor because it has only one window, instead of
four, in the hall sensor trigger. The ABA distributor is really a cam
position sensor, it triggers only once every two engine revolutions(i.e. it
lets the ECU know the next ignition event is #1). The ABA gets it's ignition
timing from a multi tooth wheel just inboard of the 5th main bearing on the
crankshaft.
The 3A is obviously conventional if you're using it, but it's no big deal to
use the RD/HT distributor with the TT adapter.
Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Bureau <txrocco@sbcglobal.net>
To: Mark <mardak@cogeco.ca>; 'Rob Calderwood' <robcalderwood1@charter.net>;
'_Scirocco Mailing List' <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 5:44 PM
Subject: RE: Knock Sensor Conversion - Re: [TECH] 3a dyno in and
Iamdisappointed, sorta...


> you can use tha BA Adfistributor for the ABA engine, and why not?
> I am using the 3a Distributor for my 3a/jh hybrid without a problem..
>
>
> Mark <mardak@cogeco.ca> wrote:
> You can't use the ABA distributor. IMHO the best solution is to buy a
> new distributor from Techtonics especially for this swap. I went this
> route and don't regret it one bit...
>
> Mark.
> 80 S
> 81 S ABA/JH/4K
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: scirocco-l-bounces@scirocco.org [mailto:scirocco-l-
> > bounces@scirocco.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Bureau
> > Sent: October 2, 2003 4:35 PM
> > To: Rob Calderwood; _Scirocco Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: Knock Sensor Conversion - Re: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I
> > amdisappointed, sorta...
> >
> > dont waste time with the TT JH-> 3a distributor plate its not worth it
> ,
> > get a 3a/aba distributor (you will not regret it I swear it on my
> parents
> > head)
> >
> > I had trouble like no one when I did the JH distributor with adaptor
> > plate, slap a aba distributor and you will have a smooth operating
> engine.
> >
> >
> > Rob Calderwood wrote:
> > Hi guys, I have been reading this discussion with great interest since
> I
> > have an ABA swap in the works for my '85 8V Scirocco. I am keeping my
> JH
> > head and plan on converting to KS ignition. I purchased the conversion
> > parts
> > for plugging the extra holes in the block and the distributor gear
> from
> > TT,
> > but have not bought the KS parts yet. I have looked around the web
> > including
> > the DriversFound site, but I am not totally clear on all the parts I
> need:
> >
> > CIS-E distributor
> > Knock Senor
> > KS Control Unit
> > Wiring
> > TB Switch
> >
> > I think I keep my old CIS control box, but not sure.
> > Any other sources on this subject?
> > Thanks,
> > Rob
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dan Bubb"
> > To: "Mike Potter"
> > ; "Patrick Bureau"
> > ; "_Scirocco Mailing List"
> > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 9:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...
> >
> >
> > > Back in the day when I had CIS I just set the CIS WOT switch right
> on
> > top
> > of
> > > the KS WOT switch. Maybe a dumb way to do it but it worked.
> > > Strangely enough the weight of that additional little switch was
> enough
> > to
> > > break the switch bracket several times before I welded a 1/4" thick
> bar
> > > across it. It was ugly! Big old heavy bracket and a bunch of switch
> > wires.
> > > Dan
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Mike Potter"
> >
> > > To: "Dan Bubb" ; "Patrick Bureau"
> > > ; "_Scirocco Mailing List"
> >
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 11:56 AM
> > > Subject: RE: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...
> > >
> > >
> > > > Dan, I was going to suggest the same thing. That's how mine is
> wired.
> > Got
> > > > to do it as the CIS-E Switches send a positive signal but the
> older
> > Lamda
> > > > control units need a ground to go WOT. Switch the current(via
> relay) &
> > > your
> > > > in biz!
> > > >
> > > > Patrick, If I had a head or $800 to spare I'd hand it over....If
> you
> > have
> > > > one in the works it will help out. Those motors need it to
> breathe.
> > Still
> > > > that thing it a torque monster! 118lbs of torque!...my 1.8 8v is
> only
> > > > getting 111.
> > > >
> > > > Good luck...
> > > >
> > > > ****When replying please copy in any original text that we have
> been
> > > > previously discussing, Thank you!***
> > > > Mike Potter
> > > > Virtual World Parts Inc.
> > > > Sales@parts4vws.com
> > > > 909-694-8600x103
> > > > 888-389-7278x103
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: scirocco-l-bounces@scirocco.org
> > > > [mailto:scirocco-l-bounces@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Dan Bubb
> > > > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 8:27 AM
> > > > To: Patrick Bureau; _Scirocco Mailing List
> > > > Subject: Re: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Well, they aren't used by the KS ignition, but the CIS ecu still
> needs
> > > them.
> > > > Do me a huge favor.
> > > > Splice into the voilet wire that runs from the KS WOT switch to
> pin 8
> > on
> > > the
> > > > KS ecu. This wire should have 12V when the switch is tripped. Run
> the
> > wire
> > > > from the splice to a small relay. Connect it to the relay coil.
> Ground
> > the
> > > > other side of the relay coil. Now take the two wires that used to
> go
> > to
> > > the
> > > > old WOT switch and connect them to the two contacts on the relay
> that
> > are
> > > > shorted when the relay is activated.
> > > > shouldn't take you more than 10 minutes to rig this up for a quick
> > test.
> > > > Or better yet, just take the two wires that used to go to the old
> WOT
> > > > switch. Short them together. With the engine idling the idle
> should
> > > improve
> > > > slightly when they are shorted. Anyway, short them together and go
> for
> > a
> > > > test drive and see if the engine has more power.
> > > > If that works rig up the relay.
> > > > LMK
> > > > Dan
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Patrick Bureau
> > > > To: Dan Bubb ; _Scirocco Mailing List
> > > > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 11:10 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > no where.
> > > > patched and laying in tray, I assumed these whe no longer used by
> the
> > > ecu
> > > >
> > > > Dan Bubb wrote:
> > > > OK. That addresses the KS ignition switches.
> > > > What about the wires that went to the WOT switch that was on your
> > car
> > > > before
> > > > you swapped to the Audi 5000 throttle body?
> > > > Where are they connected?
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Patrick Bureau"
> > > > To: "Dan Bubb" ; "_Scirocco Mailing List"
> > > >
> > > > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:55 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I used this diagram install the knock box and switches to my car
> > > > >
> > > > htm>
> > > > >
> > > > > Dan Bubb wrote:
> > > > > So, Patrick!
> > > > > What exactly did you do with the wires that ran to the CIS WOT
> > > switch
> > > > when
> > > > > you did your conversion and added the KS ignition?
> > > > > Dan
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "ATS - Patrick Bureau"
> > > > > To: "Dan Bubb" ; "_Scirocco Mailing List"
> > > > >
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 11:13 PM
> > > > > Subject: RE: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Mr Potter : headwork... yes I know... got 800$ to spare ? hehe
> I
> > > am
> > > > > working
> > > > > > on saving the cash for a full blow reworked head (ie: racing
> > > specs)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dan: as always Appreciate your inputs (even if we diagree
> about
> > > that
> > > > > 8v/16v
> > > > > > thing eheh)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. the TB is audi5000, I use CIS-Lambda with 16v Knock
> > sensor/box,
> > > > and
> > > > > this
> > > > > > included the 16v TB switches setup (2 switches),you may be on
> to
> > > > somthing
> > > > > > about the fuel mix, (It hink it may be fuel pressure and wil
> > check
> > > > that
> > > > > > soon), but enrichment switch.. humm. wil have to test the
> > switches
> > > > to
> > > > see
> > > > > if
> > > > > > one failed on me. good point
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2. the fuel/air mix is not 15:1 , but close (14.8:1 average)
> and
> > I
> > > > see
> > > > > your
> > > > > > point.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3. I am working on geting a head reworked, as for springs, if
> I
> > > did
> > > > go
> > > > > > 268-272 cam would I need to change for HD ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ATS - Patrick Bureau - txrocco@sbcglobal.net
> > > > > > ----------------------------------------------
> > > > > > MSN:ATSGTX@hotmail.com |YAHOO:ATSGTX@yahoo.com
> > > > > > ICQ:32918816 |AIM:Texasscirocco
> > > > > > ----------------------------------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > =>-----Original Message-----
> > > > > > =>From: Dan Bubb [mailto:jdbubb@ix.netcom.com]
> > > > > > =>Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 6:18 PM
> > > > > > =>To: ATS - Patrick Bureau; _Scirocco Mailing List
> > > > > > =>Subject: Re: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed,
> sorta...
> > > > > > =>
> > > > > > =>
> > > > > > =>Personally, I thought you'd be 115-118 HP so this is a
> > suprise!
> > > > > > =>There's really no way to compare my engine to yours because
> of
> > > > > > =>the Haltech,
> > > > > > =>but I still have some input (don't I always!)
> > > > > > =>A week ago I was going to suggest you include A/F ratio in
> > your
> > > > > > =>runs, but I
> > > > > > =>see you have. There's a huge clue right there! Dead on 15:1
> > > across
> > > > the
> > > > > > =>board! CIS is awesome it can hold stoichometric so
> accurately!
> > > > > > =>Now, (this is Dan the Parent!) how many times did I give
> input
> > > on
> > > > > > =>setting up
> > > > > > =>your CIS WOT switch???? If you're running at 15:1 then your
> > > switch
> > > > isn't
> > > > > > =>triggering or there is some problem with the wiring or
> > > something.
> > > > Your
> > > > > > =>engine is constantly running closed loop. With the switch
> it'd
> > > go
> > > > > > =>open loop
> > > > > > =>and drop to mid 13:1 (I presume). Now we talked briefly
> about
> > > > > > =>this at Cincy,
> > > > > > =>but the KS ignition WOT switch is not the CIS WOT switch and
> > as
> > > > far as
> > > > I
> > > > > > =>know they don't have any interconnection, but whatever, your
> > CIS
> > > > > > =>WOT switch
> > > > > > =>is clearly not working or connected.
> > > > > > =>So, step one is get the frigging WOT switch wired and
> working.
> > I
> > > > > > =>bet that'd
> > > > > > =>give you 5-10 HP right there.
> > > > > > =>The next items that come to mind are:
> > > > > > =>1) head, the stock GTI head just isn't that high flow. You
> > need
> > > a
> > > > ported
> > > > > > =>head to start making big power with the 8V (one friggen
> smart
> > > > > > =>crack from the
> > > > > > =>16V guys! Just one!). Not sure if a cam will do much without
> > the
> > > > > > =>head work.
> > > > > > =>My recollection (this is Dan the old fart speaking) when I
> was
> > > > running
> > > > a
> > > > > > =>stock head going to a bigger cam with the 2.0 just gutted
> the
> > > > bottom
> > > > end
> > > > > > =>without adding anything to the top. I have no objective data
> > and
> > > > the
> > > > > butt
> > > > > > =>dyno is a notorious lier, so take that as you wish.
> > > > > > =>2) cam. The G grind is a good mild cam. You want an 8V to
> make
> > > > power
> > > > you
> > > > > > =>need something that'll make your idle good and lumpy. 272,
> > 280!
> > > > > > =>They do hurt
> > > > > > =>the bottom end, but the 2.0 can loose some bottom end and
> > still
> > > > have
> > > > > > =>terrific off the line acceleration.
> > > > > > =>3)why the hell are you running a 16V KS box? A 16V isn't an
> 8V
> > > and
> > > > the
> > > > > > =>ignition curve is undoubtedly different. Despite your mods I
> > > think
> > > > you
> > > > > > =>should be running an 8V KS box. Just my opinion.
> > > > > > =>My exhaust, flywheel, fuel pumps, CR are the substantially
> the
> > > > > > =>same as yours
> > > > > > =>and they support alot more HP so those aren't a big issue
> for
> > > > upgrade.
> > > > > > =>Maybe I'll think of more later.
> > > > > > =>I bet you could work out the CIS WOT switch before you go to
> > > work
> > > > > > =>tomorrow.
> > > > > > =>There's a noticable difference!
> > > > > > =>HTH!
> > > > > > =>Dan
> > > > > > =>
> > > > > > =>
> > > > > > =>
> > > > > > =>----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > =>From: ATS - Patrick Bureau
> > > > > > =>To: _Scirocco Mailing List
> > > > > > =>Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 4:01 PM
> > > > > > =>Subject: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...
> > > > > > =>
> > > > > > =>
> > > > > > =>> alright after all my work here is the results I got for my
> > > > 8v....
> > > > > > =>>
> > > > > > =>> Best run 97.9HP @ 5200 RPM with 118.9 ft torque @ 3100
> RPM,
> > > > dwell
> > > > set
> > > > > at
> > > > > > =>60'
> > > > > > =>> and timing at 14' idle, 28' @ 3000 rpm.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ATS - Patrick Bureau - txrocco@sbcglobal.net
> > > > '85 2.0L Prowler Orange, Kamei X1 Rocco
> > > > '84 1.8L Silver Restoration and '83 Rocco Trailer Project
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Scirocco-l mailing list
> > > > Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > > > http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Scirocco-l mailing list
> > > Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > > http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Scirocco-l mailing list
> > Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
> >
> > ATS - Patrick Bureau - txrocco@sbcglobal.net
> > '85 2.0L Prowler Orange, Kamei X1 Rocco
> > '84 1.8L Silver Restoration and '83 Rocco Trailer Project
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Scirocco-l mailing list
> > Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
>
>
> ATS - Patrick Bureau - txrocco@sbcglobal.net
> '85 2.0L Prowler Orange, Kamei X1 Rocco
> '84 1.8L Silver Restoration and '83 Rocco Trailer Project
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Scirocco-l mailing list
> Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l