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Knock Sensor Conversion - Re: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I amdisappointed, sorta...
Hi guys, I have been reading this discussion with great interest since I
have an ABA swap in the works for my '85 8V Scirocco. I am keeping my JH
head and plan on converting to KS ignition. I purchased the conversion parts
for plugging the extra holes in the block and the distributor gear from TT,
but have not bought the KS parts yet. I have looked around the web including
the DriversFound site, but I am not totally clear on all the parts I need:
CIS-E distributor
Knock Senor
KS Control Unit
Wiring
TB Switch
I think I keep my old CIS control box, but not sure.
Any other sources on this subject?
Thanks,
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Bubb" <jdbubb@ix.netcom.com>
To: "Mike Potter" <Potterman@parts4vws.com>; "Patrick Bureau"
<txrocco@sbcglobal.net>; "_Scirocco Mailing List" <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...
> Back in the day when I had CIS I just set the CIS WOT switch right on top
of
> the KS WOT switch. Maybe a dumb way to do it but it worked.
> Strangely enough the weight of that additional little switch was enough to
> break the switch bracket several times before I welded a 1/4" thick bar
> across it. It was ugly! Big old heavy bracket and a bunch of switch wires.
> Dan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Potter" <Potterman@parts4vws.com>
> To: "Dan Bubb" <jdbubb@ix.netcom.com>; "Patrick Bureau"
> <txrocco@sbcglobal.net>; "_Scirocco Mailing List"
<scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 11:56 AM
> Subject: RE: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...
>
>
> > Dan, I was going to suggest the same thing. That's how mine is wired.
Got
> > to do it as the CIS-E Switches send a positive signal but the older
Lamda
> > control units need a ground to go WOT. Switch the current(via relay) &
> your
> > in biz!
> >
> > Patrick, If I had a head or $800 to spare I'd hand it over....If you
have
> > one in the works it will help out. Those motors need it to breathe.
Still
> > that thing it a torque monster! 118lbs of torque!...my 1.8 8v is only
> > getting 111.
> >
> > Good luck...
> >
> > ****When replying please copy in any original text that we have been
> > previously discussing, Thank you!***
> > Mike Potter
> > Virtual World Parts Inc.
> > Sales@parts4vws.com
> > 909-694-8600x103
> > 888-389-7278x103
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: scirocco-l-bounces@scirocco.org
> > [mailto:scirocco-l-bounces@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Dan Bubb
> > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 8:27 AM
> > To: Patrick Bureau; _Scirocco Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...
> >
> >
> > Well, they aren't used by the KS ignition, but the CIS ecu still needs
> them.
> > Do me a huge favor.
> > Splice into the voilet wire that runs from the KS WOT switch to pin 8 on
> the
> > KS ecu. This wire should have 12V when the switch is tripped. Run the
wire
> > from the splice to a small relay. Connect it to the relay coil. Ground
the
> > other side of the relay coil. Now take the two wires that used to go to
> the
> > old WOT switch and connect them to the two contacts on the relay that
are
> > shorted when the relay is activated.
> > shouldn't take you more than 10 minutes to rig this up for a quick test.
> > Or better yet, just take the two wires that used to go to the old WOT
> > switch. Short them together. With the engine idling the idle should
> improve
> > slightly when they are shorted. Anyway, short them together and go for a
> > test drive and see if the engine has more power.
> > If that works rig up the relay.
> > LMK
> > Dan
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Patrick Bureau
> > To: Dan Bubb ; _Scirocco Mailing List
> > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 11:10 AM
> > Subject: Re: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...
> >
> >
> > no where.
> > patched and laying in tray, I assumed these whe no longer used by the
> ecu
> >
> > Dan Bubb <jdbubb@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > OK. That addresses the KS ignition switches.
> > What about the wires that went to the WOT switch that was on your
car
> > before
> > you swapped to the Audi 5000 throttle body?
> > Where are they connected?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Patrick Bureau"
> > To: "Dan Bubb" ; "_Scirocco Mailing List"
> >
> > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:55 AM
> > Subject: Re: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...
> >
> >
> > > I used this diagram install the knock box and switches to my car
> > >
> > htm>
> > >
> > > Dan Bubb wrote:
> > > So, Patrick!
> > > What exactly did you do with the wires that ran to the CIS WOT
> switch
> > when
> > > you did your conversion and added the KS ignition?
> > > Dan
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "ATS - Patrick Bureau"
> > > To: "Dan Bubb" ; "_Scirocco Mailing List"
> > >
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 11:13 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...
> > >
> > >
> > > > Mr Potter : headwork... yes I know... got 800$ to spare ? hehe I
> am
> > > working
> > > > on saving the cash for a full blow reworked head (ie: racing
> specs)
> > > >
> > > > Dan: as always Appreciate your inputs (even if we diagree about
> that
> > > 8v/16v
> > > > thing eheh)
> > > >
> > > > 1. the TB is audi5000, I use CIS-Lambda with 16v Knock
sensor/box,
> > and
> > > this
> > > > included the 16v TB switches setup (2 switches),you may be on to
> > somthing
> > > > about the fuel mix, (It hink it may be fuel pressure and wil
check
> > that
> > > > soon), but enrichment switch.. humm. wil have to test the
switches
> > to
> > see
> > > if
> > > > one failed on me. good point
> > > >
> > > > 2. the fuel/air mix is not 15:1 , but close (14.8:1 average) and
I
> > see
> > > your
> > > > point.
> > > >
> > > > 3. I am working on geting a head reworked, as for springs, if I
> did
> > go
> > > > 268-272 cam would I need to change for HD ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ATS - Patrick Bureau - txrocco@sbcglobal.net
> > > > ----------------------------------------------
> > > > MSN:ATSGTX@hotmail.com |YAHOO:ATSGTX@yahoo.com
> > > > ICQ:32918816 |AIM:Texasscirocco
> > > > ----------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > =>-----Original Message-----
> > > > =>From: Dan Bubb [mailto:jdbubb@ix.netcom.com]
> > > > =>Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 6:18 PM
> > > > =>To: ATS - Patrick Bureau; _Scirocco Mailing List
> > > > =>Subject: Re: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...
> > > > =>
> > > > =>
> > > > =>Personally, I thought you'd be 115-118 HP so this is a
suprise!
> > > > =>There's really no way to compare my engine to yours because of
> > > > =>the Haltech,
> > > > =>but I still have some input (don't I always!)
> > > > =>A week ago I was going to suggest you include A/F ratio in
your
> > > > =>runs, but I
> > > > =>see you have. There's a huge clue right there! Dead on 15:1
> across
> > the
> > > > =>board! CIS is awesome it can hold stoichometric so accurately!
> > > > =>Now, (this is Dan the Parent!) how many times did I give input
> on
> > > > =>setting up
> > > > =>your CIS WOT switch???? If you're running at 15:1 then your
> switch
> > isn't
> > > > =>triggering or there is some problem with the wiring or
> something.
> > Your
> > > > =>engine is constantly running closed loop. With the switch it'd
> go
> > > > =>open loop
> > > > =>and drop to mid 13:1 (I presume). Now we talked briefly about
> > > > =>this at Cincy,
> > > > =>but the KS ignition WOT switch is not the CIS WOT switch and
as
> > far as
> > I
> > > > =>know they don't have any interconnection, but whatever, your
CIS
> > > > =>WOT switch
> > > > =>is clearly not working or connected.
> > > > =>So, step one is get the frigging WOT switch wired and working.
I
> > > > =>bet that'd
> > > > =>give you 5-10 HP right there.
> > > > =>The next items that come to mind are:
> > > > =>1) head, the stock GTI head just isn't that high flow. You
need
> a
> > ported
> > > > =>head to start making big power with the 8V (one friggen smart
> > > > =>crack from the
> > > > =>16V guys! Just one!). Not sure if a cam will do much without
the
> > > > =>head work.
> > > > =>My recollection (this is Dan the old fart speaking) when I was
> > running
> > a
> > > > =>stock head going to a bigger cam with the 2.0 just gutted the
> > bottom
> > end
> > > > =>without adding anything to the top. I have no objective data
and
> > the
> > > butt
> > > > =>dyno is a notorious lier, so take that as you wish.
> > > > =>2) cam. The G grind is a good mild cam. You want an 8V to make
> > power
> > you
> > > > =>need something that'll make your idle good and lumpy. 272,
280!
> > > > =>They do hurt
> > > > =>the bottom end, but the 2.0 can loose some bottom end and
still
> > have
> > > > =>terrific off the line acceleration.
> > > > =>3)why the hell are you running a 16V KS box? A 16V isn't an 8V
> and
> > the
> > > > =>ignition curve is undoubtedly different. Despite your mods I
> think
> > you
> > > > =>should be running an 8V KS box. Just my opinion.
> > > > =>My exhaust, flywheel, fuel pumps, CR are the substantially the
> > > > =>same as yours
> > > > =>and they support alot more HP so those aren't a big issue for
> > upgrade.
> > > > =>Maybe I'll think of more later.
> > > > =>I bet you could work out the CIS WOT switch before you go to
> work
> > > > =>tomorrow.
> > > > =>There's a noticable difference!
> > > > =>HTH!
> > > > =>Dan
> > > > =>
> > > > =>
> > > > =>
> > > > =>----- Original Message -----
> > > > =>From: ATS - Patrick Bureau
> > > > =>To: _Scirocco Mailing List
> > > > =>Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 4:01 PM
> > > > =>Subject: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...
> > > > =>
> > > > =>
> > > > =>> alright after all my work here is the results I got for my
> > 8v....
> > > > =>>
> > > > =>> Best run 97.9HP @ 5200 RPM with 118.9 ft torque @ 3100 RPM,
> > dwell
> > set
> > > at
> > > > =>60'
> > > > =>> and timing at 14' idle, 28' @ 3000 rpm.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ATS - Patrick Bureau - txrocco@sbcglobal.net
> > '85 2.0L Prowler Orange, Kamei X1 Rocco
> > '84 1.8L Silver Restoration and '83 Rocco Trailer Project
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
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> >
> >
>
>
>
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