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interesting coolant stuff
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Just pulled out a gallon of DEX-COOL (not used in the 'roc), it only =
says "ethylene glycol based". BUT, it meets silicate-free and =
phosphate-free requirements. (This is Havoline Extended Life, DEX-COOL =
GM approved) =20
You can be sure there are lots of unnamed additives in all these =
anti-freeze formulas. =20
What's the confusion? Use green in the Scirocco. Use orange/pink in =
your 2003 Suburban. :) Easy?
Larry
sandiego16v
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Rick Kellner=20
To: scirocco-l@scirocco.org=20
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 3:29 PM
Subject: RE: interesting coolant stuff
I just did some ingredient reading off of coolant labels.=20
One brand of the green stuff; Ethylene glycol & Diethylene glycol. =20
Another brand of the green stuff; Ethylene glycol & Diethylene glycol =
& Dipotassium phosphate & Silicates. =20
Finally, the pink stuff; Ethylene glycol & Diethylene glycol & =
Silicates.
=20
Did you notice that the green one and the pink one had the same =
ingredients? One pink and one green had Silicates. One green one did =
not. Are you confused? I am.
=20
Rick Kellner.
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org =
[mailto:scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org] On Behalf Of Euroroc II
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 3:16 PM
To: Dan Smith; rfkellner@snet.net; scirocco-l@scirocco.org
Subject: Re: interesting coolant stuff
=20
Might be right about the tag, but I do remember that one type is not =
recommended for the plastic to aluminum bonding...
-Raffi
At 10:57 AM 3/24/2003 -0800, Dan Smith wrote:
Pretty sure the cap says 'Use only VW brand phosphate free coolant' or =
something similiar.=20
Dan=20
Euroroc II <flaatr@yahoo.com> wrote:=20
All I remember is not to use one of the glycol's, polypropylene or=20
polyethylene, one is safe and one is bad...
Bad is defined as it does not protect the bonding of the aluminum core =
to=20
the plastic ends on the radiator.
Been using the blue stuff (look another color) from the dealer. I =
think the=20
warning tag that most people hove lost, the one that goes around the =
filler=20
cap on the expansion tank, warns what is safe to use. I'll look at =
mine and=20
get back to you.
-RGK-
At 12:09 PM 3/24/2003 -0500, rfkellner@snet.net wrote:
>It seems like we have run the full gamut of coolant opinions. From
>straight H2O to never use the green to never use the pink/orange. Can
>anyone point to some industry papers or independent studies?
>
>Also, for someone that wants to run straight H2O aren't there plain
>additives to inhibit corrosion? If so, what is in these products?
>
>Thanks, Rick K. Soon to change water pump and coolant.....
>
>Original Message:
>-----------------
>From: ian Butler ian@bluemoon.hplx.net
>Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:03:55 -0500 (EST)
>To: tberk@mindspring.com, scirocco-l@scirocco.org
>Subject: Re: interesting coolant stuff
>
>
>On Mon, 24 Mar 2003, T Berk wrote:
>
> > It's SILICA that is abrasive in old style coolant, it rubs seal to
> > death and is prob. the main cause (right up there with stiff belts
> > drawn too tight) of weepy waterpumps.
>
> > Check the label of the orange stuff next time; silica free. Prob.
> > partly the reason the orange stuff seems to creep out around hoses =
and
> > cause that scabby crust as well.
>
>I believe Dex and other long-life coolants have special detergents =
that,
>more or less like synthetic, have a tendency to "clean things up", =
which can
>involve removing gunk that's keeping the system from leaking.
>
>More importantly, though, green antifreeze contains phosphates, and
>phosphates eat aluminum. It's not a big deal in inline cars like
>Sciroccos, but it's a *huge* deal in Vanagons, where coolant sits in =
the
>heads, seeps under the gaskets, and pits/rusts its way right through =
to the
>ground. Such a serious and expensive problem on those that a lot of
>prospective Vanagon buyers won't touch a bus with green coolant in =
it.
>
>It hasn't concerned me enough to immediately replace the green =
coolant in my
>'roc (not that I've had the stupid thing since November anyway.. =
grumble)
>but it's about due for a flush, and it'll get Dex when I fill it =
again.
>
> > btw- Yep, water conducts better than coolant, 70/30 water to =
coolant
> > seems like a good nominal minimum.
>
>I believe 70/30 is minimum and 30/70 is maximum. Supposedly if you go =
above
>30/70, thYahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on =
your desktop!=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Just pulled out a gallon of DEX-COOL =
(not used in=20
the 'roc), it </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>only says "ethylene =
glycol=20
based". BUT, it meets silicate-free and phosphate-free =
requirements. =20
(This is Havoline Extended Life, DEX-COOL GM approved) =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You can be sure there are lots of =
unnamed additives=20
in all these anti-freeze formulas. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What's the confusion? Use green =
in the=20
Scirocco. Use orange/pink in your 2003 Suburban. =
:) =20
Easy?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Larry</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>sandiego16v</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:rfkellner@snet.net"; title=3Drfkellner@snet.net>Rick =
Kellner</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:scirocco-l@scirocco.org"=20
title=3Dscirocco-l@scirocco.org>scirocco-l@scirocco.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 24, 2003 =
3:29=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: interesting =
coolant=20
stuff</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=3DSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I just did =
some=20
ingredient reading off of coolant labels. =
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DGramE><FONT color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">One brand =
of the=20
green stuff; Ethylene glycol & Diethylene=20
glycol.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=3Dnavy face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DGramE><FONT color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Another =
brand of the=20
green stuff; Ethylene glycol & Diethylene glycol & Dipotassium =
phosphate & Silicates.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DGramE><FONT color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Finally, =
the pink=20
stuff; Ethylene glycol & Diethylene glycol &=20
Silicates.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=3Dnavy face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Did you =
notice that=20
the green one and the pink one had the same ingredients? One pink and =
one=20
green had Silicates.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
</SPAN>One green=20
one did not.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Are =
you=20
confused?<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I=20
am.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Rick=20
Kellner.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DTahoma =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original=20
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>=20
scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org [mailto:scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org] =
<B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Euroroc =
II<BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, March 24, 2003 =
3:16=20
PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>=20
</SPAN></FONT><st1:PersonName><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Dan=20
Smith</SPAN></FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">; rfkellner@snet.net;=20
</SPAN></FONT><st1:PersonName><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">scirocco-l@scirocco.org</SPAN></FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: interesting =
coolant=20
stuff</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Might be right about the tag, =
but I do=20
remember that one type is not recommended for the plastic to aluminum=20
bonding...<BR><BR>-Raffi<BR><BR>At 10:57 AM 3/24/2003 -0800,=20
</SPAN></FONT><st1:PersonName>Dan Smith</st1:PersonName> wrote:<BR><BR =
style=3D"mso-special-character: line-break"><![if =
!supportLineBreakNewLine]><BR=20
style=3D"mso-special-character: line-break"><![endif]><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Pretty sure the cap says 'Use =
only VW=20
brand phosphate free coolant' or something similiar. <BR><BR>Dan=20
<BR><BR> <B><I><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Euroroc II=20
<flaatr@yahoo.com></SPAN></I></B> wrote: <BR=20
style=3D"mso-special-character: line-break"><![if =
!supportLineBreakNewLine]><BR=20
style=3D"mso-special-character: =
line-break"><![endif]><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">All I remember is not to use =
one of the=20
glycol's, polypropylene or <BR>polyethylene, one is safe and one is=20
bad...<BR><BR>Bad is defined as it does not protect the bonding of the =
aluminum core to <BR>the plastic ends on the radiator.<BR><BR>Been =
using the=20
blue stuff (look another color) from the dealer. I think the =
<BR>warning tag=20
that most people hove lost, the one that goes around the filler =
<BR>cap on the=20
expansion tank, warns what is safe to use. I'll look at mine and =
<BR>get back=20
to you.<BR><BR>-RGK-<BR><BR>At 12:09 PM 3/24/2003 -0500, =
rfkellner@snet.net=20
wrote:<BR>>It seems like we have run the full gamut of coolant =
opinions.=20
From<BR>>straight H2O to never use the green to never use the =
pink/orange.=20
Can<BR>>anyone point to some industry papers or independent=20
studies?<BR>><BR>>Also, for someone that wants to run straight =
H2O=20
aren't there plain<BR>>additives to inhibit corrosion? If so, what =
is in=20
these products?<BR>><BR>>Thanks, Rick K. Soon to change water =
pump and=20
coolant.....<BR>><BR>>Original=20
Message:<BR>>-----------------<BR>>From: ian Butler=20
ian@bluemoon.hplx.net<BR>>Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:03:55 -0500=20
(EST)<BR>>To: tberk@mindspring.com,=20
=
</SPAN></FONT><st1:PersonName>scirocco-l@scirocco.org</st1:PersonName><BR=
>>Subject:=20
Re: interesting coolant stuff<BR>><BR>><BR>>On Mon, 24 Mar =
2003, T=20
Berk wrote:<BR>><BR>> > It's SILICA that is abrasive in old =
style=20
coolant, it rubs seal to<BR>> > death and is prob. the main =
cause (right=20
up there with stiff belts<BR>> > drawn too tight) of weepy=20
waterpumps.<BR>><BR>> > Check the label of the orange stuff =
next=20
time; silica free. Prob.<BR>> > partly the reason the orange =
stuff seems=20
to creep out around hoses and<BR>> > cause that scabby crust as=20
well.<BR>><BR>>I believe Dex and other long-life coolants have =
special=20
detergents that,<BR>>more or less like synthetic, have a tendency =
to "clean=20
things up", which can<BR>>involve removing gunk that's keeping the =
system=20
from leaking.<BR>><BR>>More importantly, though, green =
antifreeze=20
contains phosphates, and<BR>>phosphates eat aluminum. It's not a =
big deal=20
in inline cars like<BR>>Sciroccos, but it's a *huge* deal in =
Vanagons,=20
where coolant sits in the<BR>>heads, seeps under the gaskets, and=20
pits/rusts its way right through to the<BR>>ground. Such a serious =
and=20
expensive problem on those that a lot of<BR>>prospective Vanagon =
buyers=20
won't touch a bus with green coolant in it.<BR>><BR>>It hasn't =
concerned=20
me enough to immediately replace the green coolant in my<BR>>'roc =
(not that=20
I've had the stupid thing since November anyway.. grumble)<BR>>but =
it's=20
about due for a flush, and it'll get Dex when I fill it =
again.<BR>><BR>>=20
> btw- Yep, water conducts better than coolant, 70/30 water to=20
coolant<BR>> > seems like a good nominal =
minimum.<BR>><BR>>I=20
believe 70/30 is minimum and 30/70 is maximum. Supposedly if you go=20
above<BR>>30/70, th<A=20
=
href=3D"http://rd.yahoo.com/platinum/evt=3D8162/*http:/platinum.yahoo.com=
/splash.html">Yahoo!=20
Platinum</A> - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, <A=20
=
href=3D"http://rd.yahoo.com/platinum/evt=3D8162/*http:/platinum.yahoo.com=
/splash.html">live=20
on your desktop</A>! <o:p></o:p></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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