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interesting coolant stuff
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I just did some ingredient reading off of coolant labels.
One brand of the green stuff; Ethylene glycol & Diethylene glycol.
Another brand of the green stuff; Ethylene glycol & Diethylene glycol &
Dipotassium phosphate & Silicates.
Finally, the pink stuff; Ethylene glycol & Diethylene glycol &
Silicates.
Did you notice that the green one and the pink one had the same
ingredients? One pink and one green had Silicates. One green one did
not. Are you confused? I am.
Rick Kellner.
-----Original Message-----
From: scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org
[mailto:scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org] On Behalf Of Euroroc II
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 3:16 PM
To: Dan Smith; rfkellner@snet.net; scirocco-l@scirocco.org
Subject: Re: interesting coolant stuff
Might be right about the tag, but I do remember that one type is not
recommended for the plastic to aluminum bonding...
-Raffi
At 10:57 AM 3/24/2003 -0800, Dan Smith wrote:
Pretty sure the cap says 'Use only VW brand phosphate free coolant' or
something similiar.
Dan
Euroroc II <flaatr@yahoo.com> wrote:
All I remember is not to use one of the glycol's, polypropylene or
polyethylene, one is safe and one is bad...
Bad is defined as it does not protect the bonding of the aluminum core
to
the plastic ends on the radiator.
Been using the blue stuff (look another color) from the dealer. I think
the
warning tag that most people hove lost, the one that goes around the
filler
cap on the expansion tank, warns what is safe to use. I'll look at mine
and
get back to you.
-RGK-
At 12:09 PM 3/24/2003 -0500, rfkellner@snet.net wrote:
>It seems like we have run the full gamut of coolant opinions. From
>straight H2O to never use the green to never use the pink/orange. Can
>anyone point to some industry papers or independent studies?
>
>Also, for someone that wants to run straight H2O aren't there plain
>additives to inhibit corrosion? If so, what is in these products?
>
>Thanks, Rick K. Soon to change water pump and coolant.....
>
>Original Message:
>-----------------
>From: ian Butler ian@bluemoon.hplx.net
>Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:03:55 -0500 (EST)
>To: tberk@mindspring.com, scirocco-l@scirocco.org
>Subject: Re: interesting coolant stuff
>
>
>On Mon, 24 Mar 2003, T Berk wrote:
>
> > It's SILICA that is abrasive in old style coolant, it rubs seal to
> > death and is prob. the main cause (right up there with stiff belts
> > drawn too tight) of weepy waterpumps.
>
> > Check the label of the orange stuff next time; silica free. Prob.
> > partly the reason the orange stuff seems to creep out around hoses
and
> > cause that scabby crust as well.
>
>I believe Dex and other long-life coolants have special detergents
that,
>more or less like synthetic, have a tendency to "clean things up",
which can
>involve removing gunk that's keeping the system from leaking.
>
>More importantly, though, green antifreeze contains phosphates, and
>phosphates eat aluminum. It's not a big deal in inline cars like
>Sciroccos, but it's a *huge* deal in Vanagons, where coolant sits in
the
>heads, seeps under the gaskets, and pits/rusts its way right through to
the
>ground. Such a serious and expensive problem on those that a lot of
>prospective Vanagon buyers won't touch a bus with green coolant in it.
>
>It hasn't concerned me enough to immediately replace the green coolant
in my
>'roc (not that I've had the stupid thing since November anyway..
grumble)
>but it's about due for a flush, and it'll get Dex when I fill it again.
>
> > btw- Yep, water conducts better than coolant, 70/30 water to coolant
> > seems like a good nominal minimum.
>
>I believe 70/30 is minimum and 30/70 is maximum. Supposedly if you go
above
>30/70, thYahoo!
<http://rd.yahoo.com/platinum/evt=8162/*http:/platinum.yahoo.com/splash.
html> Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live
<http://rd.yahoo.com/platinum/evt=8162/*http:/platinum.yahoo.com/splash.
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I just did some ingredient reading =
off of coolant
labels. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DGramE><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>One brand of the =
green
stuff; Ethylene glycol & Diethylene =
glycol.</span></font></span><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> =
</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DGramE><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Another brand of =
the
green stuff; Ethylene glycol & Diethylene glycol & Dipotassium =
phosphate
& Silicates.</span></font></span><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> </span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DGramE><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Finally, the =
pink stuff;
Ethylene glycol & Diethylene glycol & =
Silicates.</span></font></span><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Did you notice that the green one =
and the
pink one had the same ingredients? One pink and one green had =
Silicates.<span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>One green one did not.<span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>Are you confused?<span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>I =
am.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Rick =
Kellner.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org [mailto:scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org] =
<b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Euroroc II<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, March 24, =
2003 3:16
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
</span></font><st1:PersonName><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Dan =
Smith</span></font></st1:PersonName><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>;
rfkellner@snet.net; </span></font><st1:PersonName><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
=
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>scirocco-l@scirocco.org</sp=
an></font></st1:PersonName><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: interesting =
coolant
stuff</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Might be right about the tag, but I do =
remember that
one type is not recommended for the plastic to aluminum bonding...<br>
<br>
-Raffi<br>
<br>
At 10:57 AM 3/24/2003 -0800, </span></font><st1:PersonName>Dan =
Smith</st1:PersonName>
wrote:<br>
<br style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br =
style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Pretty sure the cap says 'Use only VW brand =
phosphate
free coolant' or something similiar. <br>
<br>
Dan <br>
<br>
<b><i><span style=3D'font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Euroroc =
II
<flaatr@yahoo.com></span></i></b> wrote: <br =
style=3D'mso-special-character:
line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br =
style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>All I remember is not to use one of the =
glycol's,
polypropylene or <br>
polyethylene, one is safe and one is bad...<br>
<br>
Bad is defined as it does not protect the bonding of the aluminum core =
to <br>
the plastic ends on the radiator.<br>
<br>
Been using the blue stuff (look another color) from the dealer. I think =
the <br>
warning tag that most people hove lost, the one that goes around the =
filler <br>
cap on the expansion tank, warns what is safe to use. I'll look at mine =
and <br>
get back to you.<br>
<br>
-RGK-<br>
<br>
At 12:09 PM 3/24/2003 -0500, rfkellner@snet.net wrote:<br>
>It seems like we have run the full gamut of coolant opinions. =
From<br>
>straight H2O to never use the green to never use the pink/orange. =
Can<br>
>anyone point to some industry papers or independent studies?<br>
><br>
>Also, for someone that wants to run straight H2O aren't there =
plain<br>
>additives to inhibit corrosion? If so, what is in these =
products?<br>
><br>
>Thanks, Rick K. Soon to change water pump and coolant.....<br>
><br>
>Original Message:<br>
>-----------------<br>
>From: ian Butler ian@bluemoon.hplx.net<br>
>Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:03:55 -0500 (EST)<br>
>To: tberk@mindspring.com, =
</span></font><st1:PersonName>scirocco-l@scirocco.org</st1:PersonName><br=
>
>Subject: Re: interesting coolant stuff<br>
><br>
><br>
>On Mon, 24 Mar 2003, T Berk wrote:<br>
><br>
> > It's SILICA that is abrasive in old style coolant, it rubs =
seal to<br>
> > death and is prob. the main cause (right up there with stiff =
belts<br>
> > drawn too tight) of weepy waterpumps.<br>
><br>
> > Check the label of the orange stuff next time; silica free. =
Prob.<br>
> > partly the reason the orange stuff seems to creep out around =
hoses
and<br>
> > cause that scabby crust as well.<br>
><br>
>I believe Dex and other long-life coolants have special detergents =
that,<br>
>more or less like synthetic, have a tendency to "clean things
up", which can<br>
>involve removing gunk that's keeping the system from leaking.<br>
><br>
>More importantly, though, green antifreeze contains phosphates, =
and<br>
>phosphates eat aluminum. It's not a big deal in inline cars like<br>
>Sciroccos, but it's a *huge* deal in Vanagons, where coolant sits in =
the<br>
>heads, seeps under the gaskets, and pits/rusts its way right through =
to the<br>
>ground. Such a serious and expensive problem on those that a lot =
of<br>
>prospective Vanagon buyers won't touch a bus with green coolant in =
it.<br>
><br>
>It hasn't concerned me enough to immediately replace the green =
coolant in
my<br>
>'roc (not that I've had the stupid thing since November anyway.. =
grumble)<br>
>but it's about due for a flush, and it'll get Dex when I fill it =
again.<br>
><br>
> > btw- Yep, water conducts better than coolant, 70/30 water to =
coolant<br>
> > seems like a good nominal minimum.<br>
><br>
>I believe 70/30 is minimum and 30/70 is maximum. Supposedly if you =
go above<br>
>30/70, th<a
href=3D"http://rd.yahoo.com/platinum/evt=3D8162/*http:/platinum.yahoo.com=
/splash.html">Yahoo!
Platinum</a> - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, <a
href=3D"http://rd.yahoo.com/platinum/evt=3D8162/*http:/platinum.yahoo.com=
/splash.html">live
on your desktop</a>! <o:p></o:p></p>
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