Water pump....questions

[green536@hotmail.com (Chris DeLong)]

thank you. thats what i meant. beer can have certain impairing properties.



Chris DeLong
ICQ#45030867
Seattle, WA USA
'80 16V 'Rocco ragtop
'91 GLi 2.0 16V (for sale)
'77 Rabbit 16V
'61 17 Window type II
'91 Vanagon
'84 Jetta





>From: Haygood <haygood@aemail4u.com>
>Reply-To: haygood@aemail4u.com
>To: "Chris DeLong" <green536@hotmail.com>, 
>rocco16v@netzero.net,bhonnold@pac-cap.com, scirocco-l@scirocco.org
>Subject: Re: Water pump....questions
>Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 22:59:10 -0800 (PST)
>
>You guys are missing the point.
>
>Electric turns off instead of pumping against a closed thermostat.
>Electric pumps at the same speed, not oversped by highly revved engine.
>Both of these factors mean that it can do the same work more efficiently, 
>not through magic, but by doing the work only when needed.
>
>None of that even matters.  Scotty didn't claim he would increase his 
>overall gas mileage.
>
>What really matters is that when he floors his throttle, he gets more hp.  
>The above will help with that a good bit, but if he adds the WOT alternator 
>cutout relay, he will simply drop accessory loads at WOT.  Any dinky 
>battery can run all this stuff and more for a good 15 seconds now and then.
>
>The power advantage is way beyond the minutiae of belt efficiency and the 
>like.
>
>BwH
>
>PS: read up on electric steering racks recently.  Manufacturer's are 
>quoting 4% improvement in power and efficiency.  Mainly it's the decrease 
>in complexity (packaging) they are hyped about.  Just chipping that in.
>
>--- "Chris DeLong" <green536@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >The next question Larry, would be the efficiency of an electric pump vs. 
>a
> >belt driven pump. If an electric pump is more efficient than a belt 
>driven
> >pump then how would you consider hp staying the same? power generated by 
>an
> >alternator might be less than that spent on rotating a wp.What you might
> >need to answer is how much wieght is being added by an alternator that is
> >rated at 90A how much wieght is being added to the car to keep a battery
> >that has (how many Ah?) some storage. where does the draw come from and 
>how
> >much load is presented to the engine?
> >
> >break out with the math.
> >
> >Now go back to your 75lb. AC removal process to save weight.
> >
> >i dont think you will win this one buddy.
> >
> >
> >
> >Chris DeLong
> >ICQ#45030867
> >Seattle, WA USA
> >'80 16V 'Rocco ragtop
> >'91 GLi 2.0 16V (for sale)
> >'77 Rabbit 16V
> >'61 17 Window type II
> >'91 Vanagon
> >'84 Jetta
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>From: "L F" <rocco16v@netzero.net>
> >>To: <bhonnold@pac-cap.com>,"'_Scirocco Mailing List'"
> >><scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> >>Subject: Re: Water pump....questions
> >>Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 21:12:52 -0800
> >>
> >>MessageThis is a subject that was VERY recently debated, and this is the
> >>last I have to say on it;
> >>You have to be careful when you are considering specialized products 
>like
> >>this, Brian.
> >>Every electric water pump in the Summit catalog is listed under 
>"Hardcore
> >>Racing Parts".
> >>Look at the advertising for electric water pumps:
> >>A Moroso ad says "for drag race use only"
> >>Dedenbear's ad says "for drag race use only"
> >>One CSI ad says "just for dragsters"
> >>A Meziere ad says "oval track, off road, and pulling applications"
> >>Those are situations where the electric pump can be powered by an 
>isolated
> >>battery.
> >>
> >>There's no doubt that replacing the standard water pump with an electric
> >>pump will save horsepower IF (big if) you run that pump off a battery 
>that
> >>isn't being charged by an alternator powered by the same engine. That's
> >>what the sellers base their claims on.
> >>Where do you think the energy to power an electric water pump comes 
>from?
> >>Answer: a battery.  Where does the energy that's in the street car 
>battery
> >>come from?
> >>Answer: the alternator. And where does the energy to spin the alternator
> >>come from?
> >>
> >>Use of an electric water pump puts three additional devices into the 
>energy
> >>'loop'; the alternator, wiring, and the battery, none of which is 100%
> >>efficient, so it will not save power, ultimately it can only consume
> >>additional power.
> >>In a street car, there is only one source of power. One. The engine.
> >>In a street car, the engine supplies power for the water pump, either
> >>directly or indirectly.
> >>Just stop and think about it for a minute....that's all I ask.
> >>No matter who on this list disagrees with me, it won't change the facts.
> >>
> >>Larry
> >>   ----- Original Message -----
> >>   From: Brian Honnold
> >>   To: '_Scirocco Mailing List'
> >>   Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 5:33 PM
> >>   Subject: RE: Water pump....questions
> >>
> >>
> >>   So tell us Larry, exactly why do companies like Moroso, Meizere and
> >>Weiand (sp) waste the time and $$ to produce electric water pumps, and 
>then
> >>go to the trouble of dyno testing cars both with and without those 
>pumps,
> >>in order to advertise that 10+hp is freed up on an chevy motor due to 
>the
> >>reduced drag on the pulley system?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
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