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16v 2.0l engine, N/A stats??
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With all due respects, Scott, (and I mean that) have you been living on =
the moon for the last 30 years? Right now, the only thing more pressing =
in the automotive world than fuel mileage might be emissions. Mileage is =
one very important type of performance. In today's environment, =
yes-"performance" (mileage-type)is the main consideration faced by the =
automakers. Government mandates are driving this. Read some of the =
automotive trade journals if you doubt that ( I don't mean VW TRENDS).
a) agree
b) agree
c) Hmmm, agree only if you can tell me how you're going to determine =
what the "ideal amount" is.
d) agree... my Chevy does this very thing =20
Y'know what? I say "do it". =20
My only question is this: if it's the good idea it appears to be on the =
surface, why doesn't GM et al put electric water pumps in every vehicle? =
Certainly there is enough computer power in a modern car/truck to =
effectively control one. I don't know the reason, but there must be =
one. Cost? Maybe, but with electric pumps they could eliminate the =
thermostat and pulley, and run a shorter serpentine, which saves a few =
bucks, offsetting some of the cost of the electric motor. I dunno'.
Larry
sandiego16v
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Scott F. Williams=20
To: L F ; vince@performancecarstereo.com ; Kevin S ; =
scirocco-l@scirocco.org=20
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 7:17 PM
Subject: RE: 16v 2.0l engine, N/A stats??
Larry, are you assuming that performance (or any other single type of =
) tuning is the main component of automotive decision-making? I must =
wholeheartedly disagree with you there:
=20
a) An electric water pump isn't likely to last as long as a mechanical =
one.
=20
b) It will also cost quite a bit more. A stock pump for our cars might =
run $35 or so. The one I just picked up set me back $280.
=20
c) This will enable me to start the pumping on demand and regulate the =
flow at a rate unrelated to engine rpm. Thus, my engine will warm up =
faster and cool down quicker. I'll be able to run the pump no faster or =
slower than the *ideal* amount. This will free up horsepower and that is =
a good thing! Combine this effect with the (momentary) alternator cut =
circuit, and I'll have almost no parasitic drag at all.
=20
d) I might even be able to reverse the coolant flow so that it cools =
the head first. That would pay dividends in knock supression. -another =
good thing!
=20
Bust that!
--
Scott F. Williams
NJ Scirocco nut
'99 Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS
Mazda 323 GTX turbo "assaulted" vehicle
Golf GTI 16v "rollycar"
ClubVAC: "Roads found. Drivers wanted."=20
-----Original Message-----
From: L F [mailto:rocco16v@netzero.net]
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 9:58 PM
To: vince@performancecarstereo.com; Scott F. Williams; Kevin S; =
scirocco-l@scirocco.org
Subject: Re: 16v 2.0l engine, N/A stats??
If converting to a water pump driven by an electric motor would save =
power in a street car, the engineers would have converted years ago. =
They'd kill their own grandmother to save one mpg across the fleet.
It's an interesting idea that won't give satisfactory results.
=20
Larry
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>With all due respects, Scott, (and I =
mean that)=20
have you been living on the moon for the last 30 years? Right now, =
the=20
only thing more pressing in the automotive world than fuel mileage might =
be=20
emissions. Mileage is one very important type of performance. In today's =
environment, yes-"performance" (mileage-type)is the main consideration =
faced by=20
the automakers. Government mandates are driving this. Read some of the=20
automotive trade journals if you doubt that ( I don't mean VW=20
TRENDS).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>a) agree</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>b) agree</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>c) Hmmm, agree only if you can tell me =
how you're=20
going to determine what the "ideal amount" is.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>d) agree... my Chevy does this =
very thing =20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Y'know what? I say "do it". =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My only question is this: if it's the =
good idea it=20
appears to be on the surface, why doesn't GM et al put electric water =
pumps in=20
every vehicle? Certainly there is enough computer power in a modern =
car/truck to=20
effectively control one. I don't know the reason, but there must =
be one.=20
Cost? Maybe, but with electric pumps they could eliminate the thermostat =
and=20
pulley, and run a shorter serpentine, which saves a few bucks, =
offsetting some=20
of the cost of the electric motor. I dunno'.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Larry</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>sandiego16v</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:sfwilliams@comcast.net"; =
title=3Dsfwilliams@comcast.net>Scott F.=20
Williams</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:rocco16v@netzero.net"=20
title=3Drocco16v@netzero.net>L F</A> ; <A=20
href=3D"mailto:vince@performancecarstereo.com"=20
=
title=3Dvince@performancecarstereo.com>vince@performancecarstereo.com</A>=
; <A=20
href=3D"mailto:optimus234@hotmail.com"; =
title=3Doptimus234@hotmail.com>Kevin S</A>=20
; <A href=3D"mailto:scirocco-l@scirocco.org"=20
title=3Dscirocco-l@scirocco.org>scirocco-l@scirocco.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 17, 2003 =
7:17=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: 16v 2.0l engine, =
N/A=20
stats??</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D410100503-18022003><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Larry, are you assuming that performance (or any other single =
type of )=20
tuning is the main component of automotive decision-making? I must=20
wholeheartedly disagree with you there:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D410100503-18022003><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D410100503-18022003><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial size=3D2>a)=20
An electric water pump isn't likely to last as long as a mechanical=20
one.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D410100503-18022003><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D410100503-18022003><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial size=3D2>b)=20
It will also cost quite a bit more. A stock pump for our cars might =
run $35 or=20
so. The one I just picked up set me back $280.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D410100503-18022003><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D410100503-18022003><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial size=3D2>c)=20
This will enable me to start the pumping on demand and regulate the =
flow at a=20
rate unrelated to engine rpm. Thus, my engine will warm up faster and =
cool=20
down quicker. I'll be able to run the pump no faster or slower than =
the=20
*ideal* amount. This will free up horsepower and that is a good thing! =
Combine=20
this effect with the (momentary) alternator cut circuit, and I'll=20
have almost no parasitic drag at all.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D410100503-18022003><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D410100503-18022003><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial size=3D2>d) I=20
might even be able to reverse the coolant flow so that it cools the =
head=20
first. That would pay dividends in knock supression. -another good=20
thing!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D410100503-18022003><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D410100503-18022003><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial size=3D2>Bust=20
that!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D410100503-18022003></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D410100503-18022003></SPAN><FONT size=3D2>--<BR>Scott F. =
Williams<BR>NJ=20
Scirocco nut<BR>'99 Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS<BR>Mazda 323 GTX turbo =
"assaulted"=20
vehicle<BR>Golf GTI 16v "rollycar"<BR>ClubVAC: "Roads found. Drivers=20
wanted."</FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> L F=20
[mailto:rocco16v@netzero.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 17, =
2003 9:58=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> vince@performancecarstereo.com; Scott F. Williams; =
Kevin S;=20
scirocco-l@scirocco.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: 16v 2.0l engine, N/A=20
stats??<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If converting to a water pump =
driven by an=20
electric motor would save power in a street car, the engineers would =
have=20
converted years ago. They'd kill their own grandmother to save =
one mpg=20
across the fleet.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> It's an interesting idea that =
won't give satisfactory results.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Larry</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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