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What would this do... (technobabble)
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On a side note I have a goof friend whose dad is a retired nuclear engineer.
His masters thesis was measuring the wear rate of piston rings. He did this
by making the rings radioactive and then after running the engines throught
their test cylces (different temps, rpms and etc) they would measure the
radioactivity of the oil in each motor. Keep in mind that this was in the
50's. I've seen some photos taken during the test with big lead barriers
between him and the engines.
Any way, neat stuff.
Alan
----- Original Message -----
From: Vince Royer
To: Brandon Smith ; Allyn ; SCIROCCO-LIST
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 6:25 PM
Subject: RE: What would this do... (technobabble)
<QUOTE>
I am an ME student at Colorado State, what you said very true.
</QUOTE>
hehe...
-----Original Message-----
From: scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org
[mailto:scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Brandon Smith
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 3:12 PM
To: Allyn; SCIROCCO-LIST
Subject: Re: What would this do... (technobabble)
Someone sounds like they know a bit about Mechanical Engineering. I am
an ME student at Colorado State, what you said very true.
Most of the few times i've seen people do this, the first thing that
usually starts to go is their piston rings... especially when they do
something stupid like run that Valvoline VR-1 Racing oil in a 20w-50 in the
Dead of winter in colorado at 5:30 in the morning. (come one now...some of
you i'm sure have a cousin or something that did this in their Mazda
Protege...mine did...dumbass).
-Brando
----- Original Message -----
From: Allyn
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 2:18 PM
To: Vince Royer; Scirocco List
Subject: Re: What would this do... (technobabble)
1. when cold, the oil is too viscous. in extreme cases, its so thick
that it
cant properly flow into areas of tight tolerance, resulting in those
areas
wearing. keep that up a few times and eventually you have something
major go.
2. your engine does not warm up evenly. during the warmup process
there are
large differences in temperature across the thick portions of the
block/head.
this temperature difference results in high tensile stresses in some
areas.
throwing high rpm stresses in there may be enough to make some
preexisting flaw
start spreading into a large crack.
3. operation at high rpm implies faster heatup of the metal (due to
faster
combustion/friction/etc), making the temperature difference greater,
and the
tensile stresses (#2) even higher.
4. when cold, metal has a lower stress point where it will fracture.
this makes
#2 even worse if the stresses are in an area that hasnt warmed up yet.
other babble to throw around:
Fracture toughness (KIC): ability of a metal to prevent a preexisting
crack from
propogating under a given tensile stress level.
Thermal stresses: tensile stresses due to temperature difference
across an
object.
side note: there are very specific rules for running reactors that
govern rates
that you can heat up/cool down. they get much more restrictive the
colder you
go. reactors arent much different than engines, as both are just hunks
of metal.
HTH
Al
Allyn Malventano, ETC(SS), USN
87 Rieger GTO Scirocco 16v (daily driver, 180k, rocco #6)
86 Kamei Twin 16V Turbo Scirocco GTX ('it has begun', rocco #7)
86.5 Occo 16v Trailer (dotting 'i's across the country, rocco #8)
87 Jetta 8v Wolfsburg 2dr (daily driver, 260k, 0 rattles, original
clutch,
driveshafts, wheels :)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vince Royer" <vince@performancecarstereo.com>
To: "Scirocco List" <scirocco-L@scirocco.org>
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 2:40 PM
Subject: What would this do...
> Hey guys,
>
> Just a little fun question to throw at you. Does anybody have any
detailed
> examples of what might happen If I were to run my motor at really
high RPM's
> while it's cold, perhaps repeatedly.
>
> I'm looking for things like metal chips in the oil, loss of
compression,
> etc. I need realistic answers to things that would actually happen,
so that
> I can explain them as if they did happen and somebody would believe
me, even
> a mechanic, or an insurance adjuster or something.
>
> Go nuts.
>
> Vince
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Scirocco-l mailing list
> Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
_______________________________________________
Scirocco-l mailing list
Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
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<BODY=20
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bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>On a side note I have a goof friend whose dad is =
a retired=20
nuclear engineer. His masters thesis was measuring the wear rate =
of piston=20
rings. He did this by making the rings radioactive and then after =
running=20
the engines throught their test cylces (different temps, rpms and etc) =
they=20
would measure the radioactivity of the oil in each motor. Keep in =
mind=20
that this was in the 50's. I've seen some photos taken during the =
test=20
with big lead barriers between him and the engines. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Any way, neat stuff.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Alan</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dvince@performancecarstereo.com=20
href=3D"mailto:vince@performancecarstereo.com";>Vince Royer</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3DSCIROCCO_SPEED@msn.com=20
href=3D"mailto:SCIROCCO_SPEED@msn.com";>Brandon Smith</A> ; <A=20
title=3Damalventano1@comcast.net=20
href=3D"mailto:amalventano1@comcast.net";>Allyn</A> ; <A=20
title=3Dscirocco-l@scirocco.org=20
href=3D"mailto:scirocco-l@scirocco.org";>SCIROCCO-LIST</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 04, 2002 =
6:25=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: What would this =
do...=20
(technobabble)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D710152322-04102002><QUOTE></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>I am an ME student at Colorado State, what you said very =
true.</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D710152322-04102002></QUOTE></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D710152322-04102002></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D710152322-04102002><FONT=20
face=3Dverdana>hehe...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org";>scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.o=
rg</A>=20
[mailto:scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Brandon=20
Smith<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 04, 2002 3:12 PM<BR><B>To:</B> =
Allyn;=20
SCIROCCO-LIST<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: What would this do...=20
(technobabble)<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Someone sounds like they know a bit about Mechanical =
Engineering. =20
I am an ME student at Colorado State, what you said very true.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Most of the few times i've seen people do this, the first =
thing=20
that usually starts to go is their piston rings... especially when =
they do=20
something stupid like run that Valvoline VR-1 Racing oil in a 20w-50 =
in the=20
Dead of winter in colorado at 5:30 in the morning. (come one=20
now...some of you i'm sure have a cousin or something that did =
this in=20
their Mazda Protege...mine did...dumbass).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>-Brando </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; COLOR: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
Allyn</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 04, =
2002 2:18=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B> Vince Royer; Scirocco =
List</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: What would =
this do...=20
(technobabble)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>1. when cold, the oil is too viscous. in extreme =
cases,=20
its so thick that it<BR>cant properly flow into areas of tight =
tolerance,=20
resulting in those areas<BR>wearing. keep that up a few times and=20
eventually you have something major go.<BR>2. your engine does not =
warm up=20
evenly. during the warmup process there are<BR>large differences =
in=20
temperature across the thick portions of the block/head.<BR>this=20
temperature difference results in high tensile stresses in some=20
areas.<BR>throwing high rpm stresses in there may be enough to =
make some=20
preexisting flaw<BR>start spreading into a large crack.<BR>3. =
operation at=20
high rpm implies faster heatup of the metal (due to=20
faster<BR>combustion/friction/etc), making the temperature =
difference=20
greater, and the<BR>tensile stresses (#2) even higher.<BR>4. when =
cold,=20
metal has a lower stress point where it will fracture. this =
makes<BR>#2=20
even worse if the stresses are in an area that hasnt warmed up=20
yet.<BR><BR>other babble to throw around:<BR>Fracture toughness =
(KIC):=20
ability of a metal to prevent a preexisting crack =
from<BR>propogating=20
under a given tensile stress level.<BR>Thermal stresses: tensile =
stresses=20
due to temperature difference across an<BR>object.<BR><BR>side =
note: there=20
are very specific rules for running reactors that govern =
rates<BR>that you=20
can heat up/cool down. they get much more restrictive the colder=20
you<BR>go. reactors arent much different than engines, as both are =
just=20
hunks of metal.<BR><BR>HTH<BR>Al<BR><BR>Allyn Malventano, ETC(SS), =
USN<BR>87 Rieger GTO Scirocco 16v (daily driver, 180k, rocco =
#6)<BR>86=20
Kamei Twin 16V Turbo Scirocco GTX ('it has begun', rocco =
#7)<BR>86.5 Occo=20
16v Trailer (dotting 'i's across the country, rocco #8)<BR>87 =
Jetta 8v=20
Wolfsburg 2dr (daily driver, 260k, 0 rattles, original=20
clutch,<BR>driveshafts, wheels :)<BR><BR>----- Original Message=20
-----<BR>From: "Vince Royer" =
<vince@performancecarstereo.com><BR>To:=20
"Scirocco List" <scirocco-L@scirocco.org><BR>Sent: Friday, =
October=20
04, 2002 2:40 PM<BR>Subject: What would this do...<BR><BR><BR>> =
Hey=20
guys,<BR>><BR>> Just a little fun question to throw at =
you. =20
Does anybody have any detailed<BR>> examples of what might =
happen If I=20
were to run my motor at really high RPM's<BR>> while it's cold, =
perhaps=20
repeatedly.<BR>><BR>> I'm looking for things like metal =
chips in the=20
oil, loss of compression,<BR>> etc. I need realistic =
answers to=20
things that would actually happen, so that<BR>> I can explain =
them as=20
if they did happen and somebody would believe me, even<BR>> a =
mechanic,=20
or an insurance adjuster or something.<BR>><BR>> Go=20
nuts.<BR>><BR>> Vince<BR>><BR>><BR>>=20
_______________________________________________<BR>> Scirocco-l =
mailing=20
list<BR>> Scirocco-l@scirocco.org<BR>>=20
=
http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l<BR><BR><BR>_____________=
__________________________________<BR>Scirocco-l=20
mailing=20
=
list<BR>Scirocco-l@scirocco.org<BR>http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/=
scirocco-l<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR=20
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