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Insane speed in german cars... slightly OT, had to share...

ALRIGHT!!!  Weight isn't as much of a factor, if any at all.  It took a
little to sink in but makes sense.  Still think that the speedos could be
actual, not that they are, but that they could.  I know I did 140 (a little
over 220kph on my German speedo).

Dave


Dave-
First, let me say that it's a pleasure discussing a subject (on which we
disagree) with someone who can keep a cool head and not take things
personally.
Now, why are race cars light weight?  Four reasons:

They can accelerate harder.
They can decelerate harder.
They can generate greater lateral acceleration.
And, to a lesser degree, they are less punishing to their components,
particularly the tires.

Notice that top speed is not among those reasons.  That's because race cars
do not strive for top speed (or reach top speed in a race), they strive for
the quickest lap times. That's all.

Yes, NASCAR race cars take a long time to reach top speed, just as every car
will.  That's not because top speed is determined (in part) by how much time
you have available. (If that were true, I should be able to reach 'bout mach
2 on my bicycle if I can just keep pedaling for a month...... which I
cannot)  They reach those incredible speeds because they are A) making about
750hp and B) they are oh-so-very aero.  Those teams spend large fortunes
renting wind tunnels to make them that way.  And get this; those NASCAR
bullets are HEAVY!   I'm sure someone on the list knows what the minimum
weight on those things must be, but I do know they weigh on the far side of
3000 pounds.  They are among fastest of competition cars and yet the
heaviest.
Which brings us back to the Top Speed Equation.
  Horsepower.
  Drag (both aerodynamic and frictional).

Back to you, Dave.

Larry

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Rabbit16v
  To: Scirocco List
  Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 8:39 AM
  Subject: Re: Insane speed in german cars... slightly OT, had to share...


  I would say that weight has quite a bit to do with it.  Put that 450hp
motor
  into a Freightliner and I don't think you'll be hitting 100mph!  As far as
  the gearing, etc. I realize that hp and drag are the biggest two factors
but
  weight does have it's place also.  Another thing is that even though
vipers,
  corvettes, ferraris, etc etc. don't show factory numbers of 190 to 200mph,
  don't think that they never get there!  I would say that with a little
  tweaking (especially on the U.S. cars) that it could be achieved.  How
much
  difference does a turbo make on our little motors?  sometimes 100%
increase
  in hp?  More?  Don't you think they have aftermarket kits for some of the
  world's super cars?  Plus, I would say that 350hp to 450hp is the norm for
a
  super car.  Also, if gearing is to be taken into consideration, the amount
  of time getting to the speed does add to the speed of the car until it
hits
  it's aerodynamic wall.  Look at Nascars and their gearing.  200mph + is
  achievable with their setups but it takes a few laps to get up to that
speed
  so time is a factor and always has been.  That's why they race for top
  speeds at Bonneville--very long and flat.  Where do you get this stuff
  anyway--weight and time have nothing (or virtually nothing) to do with top
  speed??  That's why race cars are light weight and gearing is so
important.
  HTH!!

  Dave

  Brando-
  (how do I remove the background??)
  Weight has virtually nothing to do with top speed..only horsepower and
drag
  count in this equation.
  That also leaves out gear ratio to the extent that you can be under-geared
  and be rpm-limited, but gearing up (lower numerically) doesn't not assure
  more top speed. Once optimum gearing is found (based on hp and drag),
going
  up on the gear slows the car down.
   Top speed is top speed; the definition is "maximum speed achievable".
  Having 30 minutes to get there does not add to a car's maximum speed
  achievable. (and we are debating the issue of a car's...any car's...top
  speed here, right?  I want to make sure we are both talking about the same
  thing )
  Peace.

  Larry
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Brandon Smith
    To: L F ; SCIROCCO-LIST
    Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 9:00 PM
    Subject: Re: Insane speed in german cars... slightly OT, had to share...


    power to weight ratio and gear ratios make up for some of that.  Plus
the
  sight didn't say how long it took to get to that speed.  I could have
taken
  them 10 minutes to get up that high for all we know.

    -Brando

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: L F
      Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 8:16 PM
      To: Rabbit16v; Scirocco List
      Subject: Re: Insane speed in german cars... slightly OT, had to
share...

      The new Viper makes 500hp.
      It's top speed is 190mph (est).
      You are saying a MK4 makes at least 500hp?
      I dunno', I'm asking.

      Larry


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