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Insane speed in german cars... slightly OT, had to share...
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Dave-=20
First, let me say that it's a pleasure discussing a subject (on which we =
disagree) with someone who can keep a cool head and not take things =
personally.
Now, why are race cars light weight? Four reasons:
They can accelerate harder.
They can decelerate harder.
They can generate greater lateral acceleration.
And, to a lesser degree, they are less punishing to their components, =
particularly the tires.
Notice that top speed is not among those reasons. That's because race =
cars do not strive for top speed (or reach top speed in a race), they =
strive for the quickest lap times. That's all.
Yes, NASCAR race cars take a long time to reach top speed, just as every =
car will. That's not because top speed is determined (in part) by how =
much time you have available. (If that were true, I should be able to =
reach 'bout mach 2 on my bicycle if I can just keep pedaling for a =
month...... which I cannot) They reach those incredible speeds because =
they are A) making about 750hp and B) they are oh-so-very aero. Those =
teams spend large fortunes renting wind tunnels to make them that way. =
And get this; those NASCAR bullets are HEAVY! I'm sure someone on the =
list knows what the minimum weight on those things must be, but I do =
know they weigh on the far side of 3000 pounds. They are among fastest =
of competition cars and yet the heaviest.=20
Which brings us back to the Top Speed Equation.
Horsepower.=20
Drag (both aerodynamic and frictional). =20
=20
Back to you, Dave.
Larry
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Rabbit16v=20
To: Scirocco List=20
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: Insane speed in german cars... slightly OT, had to =
share...
I would say that weight has quite a bit to do with it. Put that 450hp =
motor
into a Freightliner and I don't think you'll be hitting 100mph! As =
far as
the gearing, etc. I realize that hp and drag are the biggest two =
factors but
weight does have it's place also. Another thing is that even though =
vipers,
corvettes, ferraris, etc etc. don't show factory numbers of 190 to =
200mph,
don't think that they never get there! I would say that with a little
tweaking (especially on the U.S. cars) that it could be achieved. How =
much
difference does a turbo make on our little motors? sometimes 100% =
increase
in hp? More? Don't you think they have aftermarket kits for some of =
the
world's super cars? Plus, I would say that 350hp to 450hp is the norm =
for a
super car. Also, if gearing is to be taken into consideration, the =
amount
of time getting to the speed does add to the speed of the car until it =
hits
it's aerodynamic wall. Look at Nascars and their gearing. 200mph + =
is
achievable with their setups but it takes a few laps to get up to that =
speed
so time is a factor and always has been. That's why they race for top
speeds at Bonneville--very long and flat. Where do you get this stuff
anyway--weight and time have nothing (or virtually nothing) to do with =
top
speed?? That's why race cars are light weight and gearing is so =
important.
HTH!!
Dave
Brando-
(how do I remove the background??)
Weight has virtually nothing to do with top speed..only horsepower and =
drag
count in this equation.
That also leaves out gear ratio to the extent that you can be =
under-geared
and be rpm-limited, but gearing up (lower numerically) doesn't not =
assure
more top speed. Once optimum gearing is found (based on hp and drag), =
going
up on the gear slows the car down.
Top speed is top speed; the definition is "maximum speed achievable".
Having 30 minutes to get there does not add to a car's maximum speed
achievable. (and we are debating the issue of a car's...any =
car's...top
speed here, right? I want to make sure we are both talking about the =
same
thing )
Peace.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: Brandon Smith
To: L F ; SCIROCCO-LIST
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: Insane speed in german cars... slightly OT, had to =
share...
power to weight ratio and gear ratios make up for some of that. =
Plus the
sight didn't say how long it took to get to that speed. I could have =
taken
them 10 minutes to get up that high for all we know.
-Brando
----- Original Message -----
From: L F
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 8:16 PM
To: Rabbit16v; Scirocco List
Subject: Re: Insane speed in german cars... slightly OT, had to =
share...
The new Viper makes 500hp.
It's top speed is 190mph (est).
You are saying a MK4 makes at least 500hp?
I dunno', I'm asking.
Larry
=
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dave- </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>First, let me say that it's a pleasure =
discussing a=20
subject (on which we disagree) with someone who can keep a cool head and =
not=20
take things personally.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Now, why are race cars light =
weight? Four=20
reasons:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>They can accelerate =
harder.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>They can decelerate =
harder.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>They can generate greater lateral=20
acceleration.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And, to a lesser degree, they are less =
punishing to=20
their components, particularly the tires.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Notice that top speed is not among =
those=20
reasons. That's because race cars do not strive for top speed (or=20
<U>reach</U> top speed in a race), they strive for the quickest lap =
times.=20
That's all.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yes, NASCAR race cars take a long time =
to reach top=20
speed, just as every car will. That's not because top speed is =
determined=20
(in part) by how much time you have available. (If that were true, I =
should be=20
able to reach 'bout mach 2 on my bicycle if I can just keep =
pedaling for a=20
month...... which I cannot) They reach those incredible speeds because =
they are=20
A) making about 750hp and B) they are oh-so-very aero. Those teams =
spend=20
large fortunes renting wind tunnels to make them that way. And get =
this;=20
those NASCAR bullets are HEAVY! I'm sure someone on the list =
knows=20
what the minimum weight on those things must be, but I do know they =
weigh on the=20
far side of 3000 pounds. They are among fastest of competition =
cars and=20
yet the <U>heaviest</U>. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Which brings us back to the Top Speed=20
Equation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Horsepower. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Drag (both aerodynamic and=20
frictional). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Back to you, Dave.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Larry</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:Rabbit16v@attbi.com"; =
title=3DRabbit16v@attbi.com>Rabbit16v</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:scirocco-l@scirocco.org"; =
title=3Dscirocco-l@scirocco.org>Scirocco=20
List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 05, =
2002 8:39=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Insane speed in =
german=20
cars... slightly OT, had to share...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>I would say that weight has quite a bit to do with =
it. =20
Put that 450hp motor<BR>into a Freightliner and I don't think you'll =
be=20
hitting 100mph! As far as<BR>the gearing, etc. I realize that hp =
and=20
drag are the biggest two factors but<BR>weight does have it's place=20
also. Another thing is that even though vipers,<BR>corvettes, =
ferraris,=20
etc etc. don't show factory numbers of 190 to 200mph,<BR>don't think =
that they=20
never get there! I would say that with a little<BR>tweaking =
(especially=20
on the U.S. cars) that it could be achieved. How =
much<BR>difference does=20
a turbo make on our little motors? sometimes 100% increase<BR>in =
hp? More? Don't you think they have aftermarket kits for =
some of=20
the<BR>world's super cars? Plus, I would say that 350hp to 450hp =
is the=20
norm for a<BR>super car. Also, if gearing is to be taken into=20
consideration, the amount<BR>of time getting to the speed does add to =
the=20
speed of the car until it hits<BR>it's aerodynamic wall. Look at =
Nascars=20
and their gearing. 200mph + is<BR>achievable with their setups =
but it=20
takes a few laps to get up to that speed<BR>so time is a factor and =
always has=20
been. That's why they race for top<BR>speeds at Bonneville--very =
long=20
and flat. Where do you get this stuff<BR>anyway--weight and time =
have=20
nothing (or virtually nothing) to do with top<BR>speed?? That's =
why race=20
cars are light weight and gearing is so=20
important.<BR>HTH!!<BR><BR>Dave<BR><BR>Brando-<BR>(how do I remove the =
background??)<BR>Weight has virtually nothing to do with top =
speed..only=20
horsepower and drag<BR>count in this equation.<BR>That also leaves out =
gear=20
ratio to the extent that you can be under-geared<BR>and be =
rpm-limited, but=20
gearing up (lower numerically) doesn't not assure<BR>more top speed. =
Once=20
optimum gearing is found (based on hp and drag), going<BR>up on the =
gear slows=20
the car down.<BR> Top speed is top speed; the definition is =
"maximum=20
speed achievable".<BR>Having 30 minutes to get there does not add to a =
car's=20
maximum speed<BR>achievable. (and we are debating the issue of a =
car's...any=20
car's...top<BR>speed here, right? I want to make sure we are =
both=20
talking about the same<BR>thing )<BR>Peace.<BR><BR>Larry<BR> =
-----=20
Original Message -----<BR> From: Brandon Smith<BR> To: L F =
;=20
SCIROCCO-LIST<BR> Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 9:00 =
PM<BR> =20
Subject: Re: Insane speed in german cars... slightly OT, had to=20
share...<BR><BR><BR> power to weight ratio and gear ratios make =
up for=20
some of that. Plus the<BR>sight didn't say how long it took to =
get to=20
that speed. I could have taken<BR>them 10 minutes to get up that =
high=20
for all we know.<BR><BR> -Brando<BR><BR> ----- =
Original Message -----<BR> From: L =
F<BR> =20
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 8:16 PM<BR> To: =
Rabbit16v;=20
Scirocco List<BR> Subject: Re: Insane speed in =
german=20
cars... slightly OT, had to share...<BR><BR> The new =
Viper=20
makes 500hp.<BR> It's top speed is 190mph=20
(est).<BR> You are saying a MK4 makes at least=20
500hp?<BR> I dunno', I'm =
asking.<BR><BR> =20
=
Larry<BR><BR><BR>--------------------------------------------------------=
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