RE: New cop trick

["Neal Tovsen" <sixteen.volt@verizon.net>]

> Not trying to cause any problems here but is Entrapment a
> violation of some
> type of right that we have or what?

I'm no legal jock, so perhaps someone more learned than me could chime in
here on the finer points on the concept of entrapment.

As I understand it (which might be totally outta my butt and not based at
all in fact), entrapment ties into civil liberties, harassment, and maybe
invasion of privacy. The basic premise is this: EVERYONE breaks some laws at
some time, whether inadvertently or not. If it were legal for a cop to
follow you around all day, they would do it and just continually write you
tickets for speeding, jaywalking, littering, public obscenity, etc. etc. It
also deals with cases where the cops can be considered to have "set you up"
to commit a crime, like tailgaiting you until you speed up to get away and
then hitting you with a speeding violation, or intentionally setting the
yellow light timing too short so that people get caught running a red.

Since you made me such a nice segway (sp?), I'll go further. I feel this is
basically what happened to me at Cincy this year. After hours and hours of
trying to catch one of us racing around Daun's house (which I wasn't, BTW!),
Mr. Sheriff's Deputy was probably finally on his way home when I pulled out
in front of him. I didn't know the headlights behind me were a cop, but I
knew they were around so I wasn't speeding at all. After following me for a
mile, I turned right at a stop sign. Another mile later, after continuing to
follow me, he pulled me over and gave me a ticket for not coming to a
*complete* stop at the stop sign...on a farm road...in the middle of
nowhere...with no other traffic...in rural Ohio...at 1am in the morning.
Obviously he would have LOVED to have given me a speeding ticket, but I
didn't afford him that luxury so he had to get creative. Since I had FL
plates, it was obvious I wouldn't protest the ticket. That's what I call BS,
with a capital BULL.

Don't even get me started on the speeding ticket that I overturned in
northern FL. That town has even been on "60 Minutes" and has been boycotted
by AAA for several years.

In addition to all that, it would seem to me that the taxes we all pay for
could do something more beneficial than pissing off a motorist for doing
11mph over the limit...perhaps some grand and utopian idea like fighting
drug trafficing, child abuse, or violent crime. Naw. That would be too
difficult and wouldn't make money for the department!

As a side note: Other countries don't have the crime rate we do? First:
Which countries? Second: if there are such countries, I'm quite sure the
answer is far more complex than any statements you or I will make in this
discussion. Third (and my only real point here): a lower crime rate or
improved law enforcement doesn't necessarily translate into a place I'd like
to live (ever heard of Nazi Germany, Communist China, Imperial Japan, or the
Soviet Union?). The only fool-proof way of catching all the criminals is by
putting everyone in jail!

Neal
Proud Member of the National Motorists Association
http://www.motorists.org

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> [mailto:owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Dave Ewing
> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 10:49 PM
> To: Scirocco List
> Subject: Re: New cop trick
>
>
> Not trying to cause any problems here but is Entrapment a
> violation of some
> type of right that we have or what?  If not, how can it be
> entrapment when
> speeders try to be as sneaky or sneakier as cops with radar detectors,
> jammers, etc.?  Sounds like we are trying to cripple our
> policeman even more
> than they already are.  The reason why other coutries don't
> have the crime
> rate that we do is because the law enforcement can actually
> enforce the law
> instead of being crippled by so many guidelines that they
> can't even do
> their jobs!!  Bring Caning to the U.S.!!
>
> Dave
>
> > It's called entrapment, and it is illegal in most places.
> The problem is
> > that the Police get away with it most of the time under
> some BS guise of
> > "promoting safety". The only way to promote safety is to be
> visible. If
> they
> > are hiding, then IMHO they care nothing about promoting
> safety - they only
> > care about revenue.
> >
> > I have no problem with giving tickets to speeders. However, I have a
> problem
> > when it becomes the primary occupation of a "peace-keeping"
> organization
> > simply because it is easy money. I've seen too many
> officers lately who
> > obviously care nothing about safety, fighting crime, or
> protecting people.
> > They selectively choose when they want to issue citations,
> and then break
> > the laws themselves as they drive away.
> >
> > Just the day before last, I made a run down to the store
> and was waved by
> a
> > cop sitting at the end of my block, in the middle of the
> road, radaring
> cars
> > on the busier main street. When I came back from the store,
> he was also
> > finishing up with a car he pulled over. As I got into the
> turn lane to go
> > down my street, he flashed past me doing AT LEAST 50-60mph
> in a 35. No
> > lights. No siren. No excuse. He had to slam on the brakes
> to avoid running
> a
> > red light.
> >
> > That's just one example. I also have one from today and
> another from the
> day
> > before. I've been given two completely BOGUS tickets in the last six
> months,
> > one which I fought and won, and the other which I wanted to
> but couldn't
> > because Cincy is too far from Tampa. It really pisses me off and has
> ruined
> > my trust/respect for the profession. There may be good cops
> out there, but
> I
> > haven't seen them and probably wouldn't believe it if I did.
> >
> > Neal
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > > [mailto:owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Dave Ewing
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 6:11 PM
> > > To: Scirocco List
> > > Subject: Re: New cop trick
> > >
> > >
> > > I had heard of some type of rule/law that the cop car had
> be partially
> > > viewable for them to have a radar gun setup.  But, I
> don't think it is
> > > necessary.  What is wrong with a cop in hiding nabbing people
> > > for speeding?
> > > Whether the car is hid or the guy in the wheel chair has the
> > > radar, if your
> > > speeding, your wrong!!  Right?  How can someone who is
> > > speeding say "well,
> > > the cop was wrong because it looked like he was changing his
> > > tire".  The cop
> > > wasn't breaking the law, you were!!  Hey, if someone hit my
> > > wife and kids
> > > and even HURT one of them because they were speeding I would
> > > have to hunt
> > > them down!!  And I wouldn't care WHAT kind of car they were
> > > in!!  Just my
> > > opinion and I have no tickets!!
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > > > sonofabitch!
> > > >
> > > > where???
> > > >
> > > > coincidentally, I DID happen to see the county boys over
> > > here operating a
> > > > sting with a GUY IN A WHEELCHAIR in a driveway holding a
> > > radar gun. I
> > > > promptly called ALL the rock stations in the area to alert other
> > > motorists,
> > > > 'cause I thought that was bullshit.
> > > >
> > > > I'd have been nailed if it weren't for some kewl guy in a
> > > Red Jeep that
> > > > flashed me the brights before I got there. I went by and
> > > waved at the guy
> > > in
> > > > the chair, he didn't look happy though.
> > > >
> > > > Dan
> > > > '81 Rabbit Sportruck
> > > > '87 16v Scirocco
> > > > '00 Jetta
> > > > Tam-pa, FL
> > > > http://home.earthlink.net/~danws69/index.html
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > > > [mailto:owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Neal Tovsen
> > > > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 10:00
> > > > To: jlagnese@cybertours.com
> > > > Cc: 'Scirocco List'
> > > > Subject: RE: New cop trick
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, there have even been reports here in FL of troopers
> > > pretending to
> > > fix
> > > > a flat tire while they radar people...
> > > >
> > > > Neal
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > > > > [mailto:owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of
> John Lagnese
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 11:55 PM
> > > > > Cc: Scirocco List
> > > > > Subject: New cop trick
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I was driving on I95 near the Hampton tolls in NH. There was
> > > > > a car on the median strip
> > > > > with its trunk open. I got closer and saw that it was a State
> > > > > trooper. His trunk being
> > > > > hid his lights and the trooper parked in front of him. BE
> > > CAREFUL!!!
> > > > > John
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
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