RE: Bridgestone, was tire size question.

[16V Jason <jason@scirocco.org>]

At 04:43 PM 11/13/2001, Patrick Bureau wrote:
>"This bridgestone endorsment was not paid or ask for by bridgestone, or
>firestone inc america. this was a real honest display of love for rubber.
>(GRIN)"

Actually, I _was_ paid by Bridgestone. ;)
(just kidding...) :)


>Joking aside, Interesting enough I would agree with the pirelli's statement,
>though the dry soft gum series (P4000) are the best traction I have seen on
>tires, now on wet road.. gotta like ice skates is all I have to say (BUT it
>only rains 65 days a year in texas grin and it only has snowed/iced/sleet
>twice in 3 years...heheeh)

Only 65 days?!  "ONLY" 65 days?!  That's more than once a week -- i.e. 
about 17% of the time.  That's enough to make a rain tire very 
important!  (I have driven my Scirocco 3 times in the rain in the past 3 
years -- that means that I don't give a flying fadoodle how my tires do in 
the rain... :))


>As for the michelin, the Weatherwize Touring MX4 and MVX4 are some of the
>best WET condition tires I know of, noisy yes, but really good on wet roads
>(Jeep is equiped with a michelin series tires and I love it!, my mercedes
>280CE also had MX4 and they were great on the highway)

Yeah, but they're expensive as shit!
And my Mercedes 190E has RE-930s on it, which I don't like in the rain... 
but they're still awesome on the Benz.  That's a Mercedes suspension thing 
methinks, not really a factor of the tires... :)


>I repeat in case you missed it, I drive an 8v, I drive 30-40K a year in it,
>I am looking for tires in H, V or possibly W rating, now that I have settled
>in a 195/50R15 size, and I don't drive like a maniac and I have listed the
>potenza s03, michelin Pilot XGT/SXGT/Exalto and Pirelli P7000/P700Z as
>semi-finalist, prices will depends on availability in my pocket.

Yeah, dopey, but you said you wouldn't consider a Bridgestone cause of what 
was going on in the press. <slap in the head>  That's why I attacked you, 
boy! :)

And Jesus Christ do you drive a lot!  If I were in your shoes, I'd do price 
comparisons based on the tire's price _pro-rated_ by the tire's wear 
rating.  i.e. if Tire A has a treadwear rating of 100 and costs $50, and 
Tire B has a treadwear rating of 400 but costs $150, tire B is actually 
going to cost you less in the long-run.

(Incidentally that makes me happy in the case of the S-03, which are 
considerably more expensive than the RE-71s, but have a much higher 
treadwear rating).



>I might try the Bridgestone if I can get a return/exchange policy from
>Discount-tire when I get back to Texas. (I do beleive they do this), only
>trying them out will permit me to make my mind up on the matter.

Usually it's the manufacturer that will do it, not the dealer... but give 
it a shot.


>Like many things in life, I learned that any retailer will always try to
>make a "statement" about a item or another best attributes is usually a sure
>enough proof that the item in question is the best "cut" of their profit
>(they make the most % on sales).

Yeah, that's a valid observation.  But when I see that the Tire Rack's 
findings are exactly the same as those of me and my friends, I tend to 
think that (a) either the tires I like have a higher profit margin, or (b) 
they're more objective than we think.  (A) seems doubtful in any case, 
because the tires that perform the best generally seem to be the cheapest 
in their category.  Somehow I doubt the Tire Rack makes more money on a $42 
RE-930 than they do on a $127 Michelin.


>Yes Michelin are expensive, I got two flats in canada on American bough
>michelin, they did not fix the tire as most shops would do, but Michelin's
>guarantee is REPLACE the tire, total cost for 2 new tires was 18$ (pay
>charge of usage on tire) and change.

That's just silly of Michelin -- and probably the reason their tires are so 
damn expensive in the first place!


>Now get me Bridgestone to do the same any where in north america and I might
>be VERY interested as their prices are interesting enough and enought people
>are vouching for the quality.

Most Bridgestone tires have a great warranty:

1.  A 30-day test drive.  If you drive on them and don't like them, return 
them after 30 days for a full refund.  I don't see any other manufacturer 
doing that!
2.  A pro-rated mileage warranty.
3.  A lifetime defect warranty.  That means that if the tire is damaged by 
any defect in its design or construction down to 2/32" of tread, the tire 
will be replaced at no charge.  If you hit a nail, you're on your own.

I tend to disregard #2 and #3, because when you're buying a tire from the 
Tire Rack or Discount Tire Direct, you have to actually send the tire back 
to them so they can verify that the damage was due to the tire (or the wear 
was even) before they will replace it.  You could theoretically go to NTB 
or Sears (or any other Bridgestone dealer) and have them do it, but (a) 
they generally won't, since you bought the tire somewhere else and paid 
less for it than *they* do, and (b) even if they do, they prorate the tire 
to _THEIR_ list price, which is an outrageous sum of money.

Case in point, I got 12,000 miles out of one set of RE-930s, which carried 
a 40,000 mile warranty.  It was a problem with rear suspension bushings on 
the 190E, but they wore perfectly evenly, so I decided to exercise my 
warranty rights.  I had paid $42 a piece for the tires, so I'm thinking 
that the new set will cost me 12/40(42)=$12.60 a piece.  I call Tire Rack, 
they tell me to send them back.

I needed the car every day, so I decided not to, and went to NTB.  They 
told me to fuck myself, since their cost on the tire was $54 and they were 
bitter that I paid less for it than they do.  Sears honored Bridgestone's 
warranty, but the list price on a 195/60-15 RE-930 was $139.  That means 
after they pro-rated the tire, I would pay $41.70 per tire.   So I got 2 
tires "pro-rated" and they cost exactly the same as what I paid for the new 
ones.

Of course, on the tires that I bought from Sears, I could opt for a "Road 
Hazard Protection" for $5 per tire.  This meant that they would fix any 
flat I got for free, and if the tire was damaged, replace it for nothing 
except the cost of mounting and balancing the tire $18.00.

Well, I declined.  I view using Sears/NTB/etc as an insurance thing.  You 
can pay more for the tire, and get certain benefits out of it.  But for me, 
I'd rather spend less on the tire at the onset (i.e. $42 instead of $139) 
and take the risk that I'll have to pay to fix a flat out of my own pocket 
($8 at NTB) or even replace the tire at my own cost if I irreparably damage 
a tire.  The bottom line is that I can replace a RE-930 THREE times and fix 
one flat on EACH of them... and it'll STILL cost me $4 less per tire than 
buying at Sears!!

...So to answer your question, check out the warranty if you're 
interested.  But if you're interested in not having to pay for pro-rated 
wear or road hazards, you're better off spending more, going to NTB for the 
tires and buying the Road Hazard warranty for $5.


>I have driven Ford's Mustangs, Buick regals, Ford Maverick, mecedes, Jeeps,
>Pontiac in my life and now VW's (gawd I am getting old) 20 years of driving
>(lost track of how many MILES I have done, but if the average driver gets
>20K/year that would be about 400K minimum (hell In 98-99 I put 85K miles on
>my mercdes and that was an average travel years for me) and Goodyears are
>only good as slicks on fords (read: tracks).

I wouldn't even give them _that_ much credit.  I had 4 sets of Eagle GAs 
replaced under warranty by the Goodyear dealership on my Corolla (many 
moons ago), until they (yes, Goodyear) actually bought me a set of Michelin 
MXX3s and sent me on my way.


>I love the conversation and I hope I am not annoying anyone else on this
>list with this subject do let me know if so I will just shutup.

Fuck 'em if you are!
Free Speech -- you're in Texas now dammit!

:)
Jason




--
Email LIST problems to: scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org.
To unsubscibe send "unsubscribe scirocco-l" in the message to majordomo@scirocco.org