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RE: Bridgestone, was tire size question.
"This bridgestone endorsment was not paid or ask for by bridgestone, or
firestone inc america. this was a real honest display of love for rubber.
(GRIN)"
Jason..
Joking aside, Interesting enough I would agree with the pirelli's statement,
though the dry soft gum series (P4000) are the best traction I have seen on
tires, now on wet road.. gotta like ice skates is all I have to say (BUT it
only rains 65 days a year in texas grin and it only has snowed/iced/sleet
twice in 3 years...heheeh)
As for the michelin, the Weatherwize Touring MX4 and MVX4 are some of the
best WET condition tires I know of, noisy yes, but really good on wet roads
(Jeep is equiped with a michelin series tires and I love it!, my mercedes
280CE also had MX4 and they were great on the highway)
I repeat in case you missed it, I drive an 8v, I drive 30-40K a year in it,
I am looking for tires in H, V or possibly W rating, now that I have settled
in a 195/50R15 size, and I don't drive like a maniac and I have listed the
potenza s03, michelin Pilot XGT/SXGT/Exalto and Pirelli P7000/P700Z as
semi-finalist, prices will depends on availability in my pocket.
I might try the Bridgestone if I can get a return/exchange policy from
Discount-tire when I get back to Texas. (I do beleive they do this), only
trying them out will permit me to make my mind up on the matter.
Like many things in life, I learned that any retailer will always try to
make a "statement" about a item or another best attributes is usually a sure
enough proof that the item in question is the best "cut" of their profit
(they make the most % on sales).
Yes Michelin are expensive, I got two flats in canada on American bough
michelin, they did not fix the tire as most shops would do, but Michelin's
guarantee is REPLACE the tire, total cost for 2 new tires was 18$ (pay
charge of usage on tire) and change.
Now get me Bridgestone to do the same any where in north america and I might
be VERY interested as their prices are interesting enough and enought people
are vouching for the quality.
I have driven Ford's Mustangs, Buick regals, Ford Maverick, mecedes, Jeeps,
Pontiac in my life and now VW's (gawd I am getting old) 20 years of driving
(lost track of how many MILES I have done, but if the average driver gets
20K/year that would be about 400K minimum (hell In 98-99 I put 85K miles on
my mercdes and that was an average travel years for me) and Goodyears are
only good as slicks on fords (read: tracks).
I love the conversation and I hope I am not annoying anyone else on this
list with this subject do let me know if so I will just shutup.
Patrick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org
[mailto:owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of 16V Jason
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 2:05 PM
To: Christian Els; scirocco-l@scirocco.org
Cc: pbureau@home.com
Subject: Re: Bridgestone, was tire size question.
Patrick,
I'm shocked that you would even think to compare Bridgestone's
high-performance tires to the Firestone shit that was on the POS
Explorers! Remember -- the Wilderness AT's have zero in common with
Bridgestone's lines, and the reason the tires were having problems is
because they are OE Designs, i.e. dictated by the manufacturer to perform
to a certain level at a certain price.
Remember also that the tires that failed on the Explorers didn't
necessarily fail any more often than "normal tires", but the result of
their failing on a tall, oversprung, prehistoric vehicle like an Explorer
makes the risk of a rollover considerably higher than in a conventional car.
I've driven almost 200,000 miles in the last 8 years in over 250
cars. Of the 160,000 or so that I've put on my own cars, most of which has
been with Bridgestone tires. In all of that time, I have yet to have a
Bridgestone tire with any sort of manufacturing defect or problem. Without
exception, every Bridgestone tire I have used has performed flawlessly from
new until totally worn, with no blow-outs, torn belts, bubbles, out of
roundness, etc. I cannot say the same for any of the Michelin, Pirelli,
Goodyear, or Dunlop tires I've had.
I have a total of about 130,000 miles experience driving on
Bridgestone's Potenza RE-930 H-Rated all-season tires -- on 4 different
cars. In addition, I have several close friends who have followed my
advice and put RE-930s on their cars, ranging from an Infinity J30, E30
325i, Civic EX, Corolla, Altima, Accord, MB190E, C-Class, Golf, A2 Jetta,
and A3 Jetta to a Rolls-Royce Silver Seraph. Without fail, every single
one of those friends has agreed that the RE-930s were the best performing
all-season tires they had ever experienced. They lasted anywhere from
20,000 to 65,000 miles per set, depending on how they were driven, and each
one of those friends has refused to use any other tire ever again.
The same goes for the RE-71. I was introduced to the tire by a
friend with a Jetta GLI. In total, he has 80,000 miles on 3 sets of
RE-71s, and I now have 20,000 miles on them. Between other friends that
have owned RE-71s, I have heard nothing but absolute praise about their dry
handling, quietness, and turn-in response. I've heard people (stupidly)
complain about their snow performance, and I personally am not thrilled
with their rain performance.
The Tire Tack's independent testing confirms my findings on both
the RE-930 and the RE-71. Both of these tires have consistently
outperformed all of their competitors in every way measured, and they've
done it at a cheaper price. And with combined experience of more than a
half million miles just in my close social circle, I've witnessed not a
single failure. So to miss out on 2 of the best performing tires on the
market because of something like the Firestone/Explorer debacle would make
as much sense as refusing to buy a Porsche because Volkswagen's VR6 engine
has head gasket problems.
My friends and I have had horrible luck with Pirelli tires. I've
had 3 sets on 3 different cars, and wasn't satisfied with either wet or dry
performance. Noise levels were acceptable when new, but all of the
Pirellis I've had have broken steel belts and become loud and out of
round. I've seen this happen on a number of my friend's cars as well. I
won't waste my breath talking about Goodyear. The Michelins I've had are
decent tires, but would be worth it at about 40% of their selling
price. Dunlops are generally very good tires, just one notch below the
comparable Bridgestones for each category IMO.
As far as the current lineup of Bridgestones, both the RE-71 and
the RE-930 have been replaced. The RE-71's replacement is the RE-730, a
tire that addressed the RE-71's poor rain performance. The 730 is an
outstanding performer in the rain (you've all heard about the 328i
*stalling* when the clutch was dumped from 6000rpm in pouring rain -- and
60-0 stops in 112ft in the rain-- we're talking _serious_ wet traction),
but that came at the slight expense of dry grip. More importantly, though,
is the 730's tendency to become outrageously loud as they wear. They're
probably no louder than most Dunlop SP-series tires, but having witnessed
countless sets of RE-71s stay dead quiet until the wear bars (and beyond),
I find that unacceptable. I will not be purchasing any RE-730s. Instead,
come January I'll be purchasing the Pole Position S-03s, Tire Rack's
highest rated Ultra-Performance tire.
The RE-930 was replaced recently with the RE-950. I now
unfortunately have a mixed set on my Mercedes 190 -- RE-950s in the front
and RE-930s in the back. The RE-950s are considerably better in the rain
than were the RE-930s, and as of yet I've been unable to discern any loss
in dry performance (though I was expecting it). The RE-950s (still new)
are as quiet as the RE-930s were, however the sidewalls are considerably
stiffer, transmitting more of what's going on down there to the steering
wheel. All in all, so far I'm very impressed and despite me previously
thinking the RE-930s were unbeatable, think they might actually be a better
tire. So far I have one other friend with 20,000 miles on his set and he's
loving them. He had switched first to Yokohama Avid H4s for his Honda
(kept the RE-71s on the Jetta), and realized soon that it's just not worth
going to any tire other than Bridgestone. :)
YMMV. :)
Jason
At 08:25 AM 11/12/2001, Christian Els wrote:
>Don't know about your newspaper, but I read that a bunch of SUV owners
>didn't pay attention to their inflation pressure or their driving then put
>the screws to two big companies to cover for their errors. Last time
>something like this happened we got bargain Audis for 10 years.
>
>If you discount Bridgestone tires for that, you're missing out on several
>very good tires -- S-03, RE -930, or even RE-71's if you can find them.
>
>
>Christian Els
>'87 16V
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Scott F. Williams" <sfwilliams@home.com>
>To: "Patrick Bureau" <pbureau@home.com>; "_scirocco List"
><scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
>Sent: Sunday, 11 November, 2001 21:08
>Subject: RE: tire size question.
>
>
> > The point I was making is that the 205 tire is going to weigh more than
>the
> > 195 width tire. Unsprung weight is the big enemy to performance and
>comfort.
> > Now, regarding the Bridgestone tires, what have you read in the papers?
>All
> > I know is that these S-03s are amazingly grippy, turn in like a mofo,
and
> > are reasonably quiet/compliant.
> > --
> > Scott F. Williams
> > NJ Scirocco nut
> > Golf GTI 16v rallycar
> > Mazda 323 GTX turbo assault vehicle
> > ClubVAC: "Roads found. Drivers wanted."
> >
> > Check out our rally team's website!
> > http://www.usrallyteam.com
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > > [mailto:owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Patrick Bureau
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 10:05 PM
> > > To: _scirocco List
> > > Subject: RE: tire size question.
> > >
> > >
> > > What des the weight of the wheel itself have anything with the
> > > tire size you
> > > are putting on the car ?
> > > and I doubt the ATS CUPS are heavier than the 16 year old Magnesium
> > > Tarantula's I have (those make great anhcors for boats..)
> > >
> > > Bridgestones.. Yeah.. Not in my lifetime. (ever read the newspapers?)
> > > Dunlops I will think about those (they have been reccommended before
but
>I
> > > always veered to the Pirelli's and Michelin's Instead. (somethign
> > > about 85K
> > > guarantee on tires that attract me.)
> > >
> > > Patrick
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > > [mailto:owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Scott F. Williams
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 9:40 PM
> > > To: Patrick Bureau; _scirocco List
> > > Subject: RE: tire size question.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Now my question after messing with 4 different web pages that
> > > help figure
> > > > out the ration of tires for the roccos I have narrowed down to 2
>sizes;
> > > > 195-50R15 and 205-50R15.
> > >
> > > To maintain proper rolling diameter, you should stick with the
195/50/15
> > > tire. Also you should keep the unsprung weight in mind, too. The ATS
Cup
> > > wheels ain't light.
> > >
> > > > I have investigated a few corp named tires (Toyo,
> > > > Michelin, and so on) and I have a "fair " idea what I am looking
> > > > for (85-89 load, H-V rated, wear 220-320), good on rain and dry.
> > >
> > > So, you want maximum performance tires? I *highly* recommend the
> > > Bridgestone
> > > S-03. A second choice would be the Dunlop SP9000 or SP8000. The 9000
is
> > > slightly quieter and offers better wet traction.
> > > --
> > > Scott F. Williams
> > > NJ Scirocco nut
> > > Golf GTI 16v rallycar
> > > Mazda 323 GTX turbo assault vehicle
> > > ClubVAC: "Roads found. Drivers wanted."
> > >
> > > Check out our rally team's website!
> > > http://www.usrallyteam.com
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Email LIST problems to: scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org.
> > > To unsubscibe send "unsubscribe scirocco-l" in the message to
> > > majordomo@scirocco.org
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Email LIST problems to: scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org.
> > > To unsubscibe send "unsubscribe scirocco-l" in the message to
> > > majordomo@scirocco.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Email LIST problems to: scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org.
> > To unsubscibe send "unsubscribe scirocco-l" in the message to
>majordomo@scirocco.org
> >
>
>
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