Re: Supertrapp exaust question-Toyota and Scirocco

["I.Mannix" <mannix@secretignition.com>]

At 03:56 PM 10/19/98 -0400, lerb wrote:
>Well I have one...I will tell you why I got mine!.. If you think about it
>what makes a high performance exhaust?

Thinking....umm, good bends, well thought out primary diameters, lengths,
things to help flow, scavenging and using exhaust pulses to your advantage.


>1. It is possible to tune you entire car by your exhaust to max output.

More on this later....

>2. None of the more modern systems are tunable

There might be a reason for this.

>3.What happens to my performance/Exhaust usage as I change modifications?
>4.What was an alternative to the standard (you know the standard VW exhaust
>aftermarket.)

???  Lots of alternatives, even if you bought it 10 years ago.  


>Now I will tell you why I bought mine.

OK....

 Ok when you buy a
>"normal" system such as tectonics, borla and all those similar what happens
>when you change your setup? What happens when you install a cam? What
>happens when you want to add a turbo? NOTHING............absolutely NOTHING
>you just have the highest flowing exhaust tuned to stock! Period......no way
>of changing it at all.

Chopped out all the other stuff.  So, lesse.  All the exhausts out there
are maximized for stock use?  Supertrapps are known to provide the most
power with no discs whatsoever, at least on VWs.  They are also known, at
least locally, to kill power on VWs - many people have dynoed them, and
they don't seem to allow the most power.  Not many people will dyno several
mufflers to see which gives the most power - including me.  I've heard,
from reputable sources, that Supertrapps are not the best.  Maybe they're
hiding something from me, but they don't use them, either.  Installing a
turbo will necessitate an exhaust change, no matter what - let's start by
making the distinction between _MUFFLER_ and _EXHAUST_.  A Supertrapp is a
muffler.  With a Supertrapp, you have two choices - straight through
glasspack or straight through glasspack with restriction.  Great.  Exhaust
"tuning" goes far beyond sticking various sized corks in the tailpipe.
Engine displacement does not change with anything but cams, engine
displacement basically determines how much stuff comes out of the engine, a
cam will simply allow more unburned stuff into the combustion chamber.


 I mean hell if you buy a pair of cams and Hardly
>feel a difference it is probably somewhere else. Start looking as simple as
>the exhaust.

I agree - exhaust is important, and it is important to make an educated
decision in buying an exhaust.  My _main_ complaint with Supertrapp is the
resonance I spoke of in my original post.  They sound neat outside the car,
gee, they sound like a glasspack.  WRT making/killing power, I don't know -
I've dragraced a friend's Rabbit w/Supertrapp, it has a "real" IT motor in
it, IE, one built for Improved Touring, and at the time, it was no faster
than mine.  My car is faster now.  Can't say that the Supertrapp is to
blame - but it should be faster, I mean, the motor had 13k on it, mine had
130k on it - his was rebuilt with the Improved Touring rulebook open, mine
was built in 1983.  His car was lighter.  He's lighter.  He is a good
driver.  Yet, for some reason, my car was just as quick.  


>Some features of my supertrap....lifetime warranty (stainless only) if you
>want more top end add more plates if you want more bottom end take them off.
>strange thing is it gets louder the more plates you put on!

Not strange - pushing the same amount of air through smaller holes.  

Supertrapps are interesting mufflers.  I sorta want one, just to goof
around with it, but it does not make sense to me.  Adding restriction seems
like backwards "tuning" to me.  It works - adding restriction will change
where the motor makes its peak power, and peak power is seen with no discs.
 To me, "tuning" an exhaust starts at the head, ends at the tailpipe.
IMHO, if you want the car to make good power at a certain RPM, start with
the engine, and as far as the exhaust is concerned, make sure it flows
well, maintains velocity & meets whatever sound requirements are in order.  


>I have heard alot of people on here and the A-2 list bad mouth these
>exhausts but yet I see those same guys at the shows and see they have
>techtonics exhausts. I have done the math.....no other exhaust is
>tunable...none.......hope this helped ya...I am going to sit back and let
>the complaints fly :)


Made me think more about why I don't really like Supertrapps.  That helps!
As far as shows, well, a TT exhaust(or mine) is not terribly glamourous -
pretty draned ugly, actually, just a pipe, but pipes are what's needed, so
I have a pipe.  Supertrapps do look neat.  You're correct - no other
MUFFLER is "tunable."  There is a new muffler on the market that has an
"attack" mode(giggle), at high rpms, it pushes a little pipe out &
increases flow.  MR2 Performance, in Denver, designed/tested the Nology
Hotshot/Shotgun/something with Shot in it exhaust - little flapper which
increases backpressure for torque at low rpms, at high rpms, exhaust gases
open it up, creates a straightpipe.  To me, this makes more sense than a
Supertrapp - at least it is variable, and hey, that's tunable, at least
John's prototypes were - you could change the spring that held the plate
closed, changing when it opened, so the Supertrapp is _not_ the only
"tunable" muffler out there.   Anyhow, I guess my point is this -
Supertrapps can change power peaks.  Supertrapps, however, will limit flow
at various rpms, depending on how many discs there are.  Most will agree
that power is lost with discs on a Supertrapp - might change the peak, but
you lose something.  If it works for you, great!  Not for me.  Dirtbikes
seem to work well with them, for one reason or another, might have
something to do with scavenging.  Don't know. Never seen you write more
than one line, Lerb!;) 


I.Mannix
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