Re: A/C Saga Gets Amusing! (long)

["Brian M. Potter" <tonedeaf@earthlink.net>]

Rich Garrett wrote:
>
> 
> Dealer confirms US$1200 to do the conversion: 10 hours labour (@ $60/hour)
> plus parts. I think: Dealer Smokes Big Crack. Then the Delaer sez that they
> want to get the current A/C system running in order to determine if its "the
> type of system that can be converted without as many parts", so I they might
> be able to save me a bit on parts....! So, $1700 to get this done. I think:
> Dealer performs umentionable acts with goats. They gave me a list of part
> numbers needed, so I'll post that in a seperate message.
> 
> The car is currently with the trusty folks at Slipstream for a post-alignment
> steering wheel adjustment. They're going to check out the a/c and get it
> working, time permitting. Hopefully they can find a cheaper conversion method!

> Seems that, as Ray-'81_S (1.8L, G-Grind, Carb, Hideous body) mentioned, most
> of the conversions can be done fairly cheaply, in general using the same
> compressor and hoses. Apparently the key part of keeping the hoses, is that
> the mineral oil soaks into the neoprene enough that it forms a barrier to the
> R134a, preventing deterioration. Of course, if you do detect leaks in the
> hoses, they should be replaced with new seals and fittings, but as long as the
> old hoses are not leaking,they should work fine. You do need to pull as much
> of the R12 and mineral oil out as possible, and then replace with the PAG or
> POE oils.
> They basically say that, even if the compressor needs replacing, the
> conversion should not even approach $1000.
> 
> Now -Ken Writes:
> 
> >Three words: don't do it.
> >R-134a is a product of a lot of research by General Motors that resulted in a
> refrigirant >that requires a higher operating pressure and doesn't cool as
> well as R-12.  Besides being >incompatible with the O-rings and oil in your
> system, it just won't work as well.
> 
> The article does indicate that R134a does not cool as well as R12. However,
> R12 is not being made anymore, so you have to do something. Plus R134a is
> *much* kinder on the environment (meaning, *you*).
> 
> >The good news is that there is a viable replacement for R-12 called FrigC, or
> FR-12.  It's >actually 10% better at cooling your system than R-12 is, won't
> trash the ozone layer, and >won't kill your seals.  You need to use synthetic
> oil, but that's it.  Besides working >better and costing less, it also works
> at about 40% the pressure of R-12, meaning it wears >your system less and
> doesn't kill performance so much.  The only problem is that though >it's
> distributed by Pennzoil (it's actually made by Intermagnetics General
> Corporation) >it's not widely available from installers.  I had to drive miles
> to find someone to put it >in my Alfa Romeo, and I'm not entirely sure he knew
> what he was doing.  FrigC is a >combination of tetrafluoroethane,
> chlorotetrafluoroethane and butane.
> The article had a huge sidebar on this stuff....
> FR-12 is made by Intermagnetics General Enterprises (ICE geddit? >;-> ). It
> is, however, significantly more expensive than R134a (I don't remember the
> numbers, but will get them tonight and post monday). Also, apparently right
> now, the only major places dealing with it are Jiffy Lubes. Now, you have to
> have seperate equipment to deal with the FR-12, so you can't go to Jiffy Lube
> to get the conversion, then go to XYZ Auto Shop (or even your dealer!) to get
> further service. Maybe JL is trying to get a little forced long-term service
> action going??
> 
> In addition, the major car manufacturers are pretty much committed to R-134a.
> For example, Ford has said they will OE the systems for the next 10
> years....Why go with a product that is not widely accepted as an industry
> standard, fo what seems like minimal gains? the higher pressure R134a uses
> about 80% of the volume necessary for R12 (so you pay for less). Plus, its the
> cheapest available. 10% cooling difference doesn't seem like much.
>


Well, I'm the one who started this whole A/C saga(I think?). So I
thought I'd let all of you know what happend.  

I decided to convert my A/C to R134a.  I found an import service station
who specializes in VW to do the job for $225.  The cheapest quote I got
to recharge the system with freon was $175.  So I figured, why not spend
the extra $50 and get a more cost effective system for future recharges?
The service station did a great job.  They said they had to retro fit
the conversion a little, changed all the O-rings on the hoses they
removed and installed, ran some mineral oil through the lines, charged
it, checked for leaks and its done.  Turned out that my compressor
needed a re-valve repair(I don't know what this is)for a total cost of
$296.  The system appears to work pretty good and I can't tell the
difference in coldness between the R12 system in my GTI than the new
R134a system.  R134a seems to be just as cold.
Thanks to all who responded!

Brian Potter
88 Scirocco 16V
91 GTI 8V
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