A/C Saga Gets Amusing! (long)

["Rich Garrett"<jrgarre@uswest.com>]

Thanks to all who've sent advice and experience so far.....

Well, I get tto the dealer yesterday afternoon, and everything's good to go on
the gas tank recall (they charged me $90 to replace a "split fuel line" that I
never noticed, but I just wanted the car back too much to argue). So I ask
about the conversion......

Dealer confirms US$1200 to do the conversion: 10 hours labour (@ $60/hour)
plus parts. I think: Dealer Smokes Big Crack. Then the Delaer sez that they
want to get the current A/C system running in order to determine if its "the
type of system that can be converted without as many parts", so I they might
be able to save me a bit on parts....! So, $1700 to get this done. I think:
Dealer performs umentionable acts with goats. They gave me a list of part
numbers needed, so I'll post that in a seperate message.

The car is currently with the trusty folks at Slipstream for a post-alignment
steering wheel adjustment. They're going to check out the a/c and get it
working, time permitting. Hopefully they can find a cheaper conversion method!

While at Slipstream waiting for my ride, I picked up their copy of AutoWeek,
or MotorWeek (or something like that) that is a mechanic's trade rag. Lo and
Behold! There's an article on A/C conversion! So I read through and found some
interesting items:

Seems that, as Ray-'81_S (1.8L, G-Grind, Carb, Hideous body) mentioned, most
of the conversions can be done fairly cheaply, in general using the same
compressor and hoses. Apparently the key part of keeping the hoses, is that
the mineral oil soaks into the neoprene enough that it forms a barrier to the
R134a, preventing deterioration. Of course, if you do detect leaks in the
hoses, they should be replaced with new seals and fittings, but as long as the
old hoses are not leaking,they should work fine. You do need to pull as much
of the R12 and mineral oil out as possible, and then replace with the PAG or
POE oils.
They basically say that, even if the compressor needs replacing, the
conversion should not even approach $1000.

Now -Ken Writes:

>Three words: don't do it.
>R-134a is a product of a lot of research by General Motors that resulted in a
refrigirant >that requires a higher operating pressure and doesn't cool as
well as R-12.  Besides being >incompatible with the O-rings and oil in your
system, it just won't work as well.

The article does indicate that R134a does not cool as well as R12. However,
R12 is not being made anymore, so you have to do something. Plus R134a is
*much* kinder on the environment (meaning, *you*).

>The good news is that there is a viable replacement for R-12 called FrigC, or
FR-12.  It's >actually 10% better at cooling your system than R-12 is, won't
trash the ozone layer, and >won't kill your seals.  You need to use synthetic
oil, but that's it.  Besides working >better and costing less, it also works
at about 40% the pressure of R-12, meaning it wears >your system less and
doesn't kill performance so much.  The only problem is that though >it's
distributed by Pennzoil (it's actually made by Intermagnetics General
Corporation) >it's not widely available from installers.  I had to drive miles
to find someone to put it >in my Alfa Romeo, and I'm not entirely sure he knew
what he was doing.  FrigC is a >combination of tetrafluoroethane,
chlorotetrafluoroethane and butane.
The article had a huge sidebar on this stuff....
FR-12 is made by Intermagnetics General Enterprises (ICE geddit? >;-> ). It
is, however, significantly more expensive than R134a (I don't remember the
numbers, but will get them tonight and post monday). Also, apparently right
now, the only major places dealing with it are Jiffy Lubes. Now, you have to
have seperate equipment to deal with the FR-12, so you can't go to Jiffy Lube
to get the conversion, then go to XYZ Auto Shop (or even your dealer!) to get
further service. Maybe JL is trying to get a little forced long-term service
action going??

In addition, the major car manufacturers are pretty much committed to R-134a.
For example, Ford has said they will OE the systems for the next 10
years....Why go with a product that is not widely accepted as an industry
standard, fo what seems like minimal gains? the higher pressure R134a uses
about 80% of the volume necessary for R12 (so you pay for less). Plus, its the
cheapest available. 10% cooling difference doesn't seem like much.

I'll post the specific article info on monday!

Rich
'87 16v


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