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Is the 1.8 16V really 1800 cc or is it a little less?

Subject: Is the 1.8 16V really 1800 cc or is it a little less?
From: jdbubb at verizon.net (Dan Bubb)
Date: Wed Oct 4 07:46:50 2006
References: <146946bb0610031637j7898fd6dr11a8c9cd68921f2c@mail.gmail.com> <OFE5625ADB.81571C5F-ON882571FC.0083A3EC-882571FD.00001C34@bcit.ca> <146946bb0610031721r682d919cm319e399cf48b028d@mail.gmail.com> <002e01c6e750$7e4244f0$2f01a8c0@HP52381024421> <146946bb0610031810v464dead1l244bec041375d7e1@mail.gmail.com> <002501c6e7ab$cfd4ee20$b709b9d0@4WAVE> <146946bb0610040513s2846123x45fa5aa1c12fcfe9@mail.gmail.com>

You can deck the head all you want and it will not change piston to head clearance.
Decking the block will change piston to head clearance.

I don't recall anybody measuring the clearance. You sure the pistons aren't greeting the head in a nice light manner every revolution???


From: "Brian McGarvey" <bmcgarvey@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: Is the 1.8 16V really 1800 cc or is it a little less?


> BTW the group A head gasket fits :) even when you have the snot decked
> out of a 16v head.. Didnt you notice the part number when we put it
> back together in the 16v at brett's house?
> 
> :-)
> 
> 
> On 10/4/06, Dan Bubb <jdbubb@verizon.net> wrote:
>> Yeah, it's pretty specific, but has not a damn thing to do with reducing displacement.
>> Displacement is "swept volume". It's determined ONLY by bore and stroke! Anything you do above the piston pin only affects CR.
>>
>> Decking the snot out of the block only makes the piston stick too far out the top and hit the head.
>> Flycutting the pistons only makes them weaker than stock and I'm sure the design engineers specified a whole shitload of extra weight on the top of the piston (that will effect performance and engine vibration!) just for this purpose.
>> Neither has anything to do with displacement.
>>
>> Brett has by far the best idea (rules permitting) of putting the 16V head on a 1.7L (1715cc) block although that has its own problems in that nobody makes a 79.5 or 80mm bore piston and using a stock 1.7L piston gives you under 8:1 CR.
>>
>> Another idea, again rules permitting, is using an 82.5mm piston from a 2.0L 16V and an 80mm crank from a 1.6L for 1710cc or in a pinch an 83mm overbore piston w/80mm stroke for 1731cc. You'd need a non-stock rod, maybe an ABA rod, and maybe some adjustments to block height to make all that work and the CR would be lower than stock 16V due to the decreased displacement.
>> Lotta work either way.
>> Dan
>>
>> BTW, if the Group A headgasket was originally made for an 8V I'd make damn sure about piston to head clearance before putting it on a 16V. The piston already protrudes from the block.
>>
>>
>> From: "Brian McGarvey" <bmcgarvey@gmail.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 9:10 PM
>> Subject: Re: Is the 1.8 16V really 1800 cc or is it a little less?
>>
>>
>> > ok so all he needs to shave is what 30cc's the area in one combustion
>> > chamber of an 8v. divided by 4
>> >
>> > the cheapass in me would put a group A headgasket on it. (increase
>> > compression by reducing distance between the block and head. Then I
>> > would have the head decked for level within maintainance levels..
>> > (leave room for one more decking). further reducing the overall
>> > displacement by making z smaller in those clyn.
>> > then you can also have the block decked maint level or otherwise.
>> > further reducing it none of this has dorked with the combustion
>> > chamber shape except in the z-direction
>> >
>> > once you finally get it down to as far as you can go without doing the
>> > piston/valve slap take your pistons down and get the valve reliefs
>> > made deeper. I'm betting you can get a full compression point ie.
>> > ~10:1 to ~11:1 and reduce the displacement
>> >
>> > You may have to have the tops of the pistons flycut and ceramic coated
>> > to re-lower your compression if you have to.
>> >
>> > Is that specific enough..
>> > Group A headgasket is 1/2 hieght of normal..
>> > stacked ABA gaskets work to lower compression on 16vTs..
>> >
>> > Brian
>> >
>> > oh does it say you have to maintain na/or forced or stock fueling?
>> >
>> >
>> > On 10/3/06, Dan Bubb <jdbubb@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >> OK, spell it out Brian.
>> >> How does decking the block and pistons affect displacement?
>> >> Special pistons? Special rods? Special crank?
>> >>
>> >> What cheapass-in-the-rules-plan decreases the displacement and retains any
>> >> kind of compression ratio and combustion chamber shape appropriate for
>> >> racing?
>> >>
>> >> Specifics Man!!!
>> >> You really need to ditch the GRM rules mentality!
>> >> Dan
>> >>
>> >> From: "Brian McGarvey" <bmcgarvey@gmail.com>
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 8:21 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: Is the 1.8 16V really 1800 cc or is it a little less?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Ok the rules state you cannot deck the head.. what about the block and
>> >> > pistons to keep the compression ratio the same, but decrease the
>> >> > displacement :-)
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On 10/3/06, Cory Langford <Cory_Langford@bcit.ca> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Well, the rules also say I can't deck the head or change the compression
>> >> >> ratio :(
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Guess that leaves the EN 1.7 with a displacement of 1715. I just hoping
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> have a 16V instead. I guess a 90 HP engine in a 1500 lb car is still
>> >> >> somewhat competitive. Those Honda hatchbacks seem to dominate that class.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Cory Langford
>> >> >> 82/83/78 shells looking to become a race car 8^)
>> >> >> 81 1.8S (for Supercharged)
>> >> >> 78 1.9L 8V Turbo
>> >> >> 86 2.1L 8V Turbo
>> >> >> 68 Ghia
>> >> >> 95 Eurovan
>> >> >> "Brian McGarvey" <bmcgarvey@gmail.com> wrote on 03/10/2006 04:37:07 PM:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Deck the snot out of it... relief the pistons a bit more.. and you can
>> >> >> > probably prove your under that 1750cc mark :-) and get a boost in
>> >> >> > HP...
>> >> >> > Bigmac..
>> >> >> > The rules are there to be tested...
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > On 10/3/06, Cory Langford <Cory_Langford@bcit.ca> wrote:
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > Okay, I don't have my bently handy, but I need to know what the exact
>> >> >> > > displacement of the 1.8L 16V Scirocco engine is.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > Reason being, - The class cut-off I want to try and get the car into
>> >> >> > > for
>> >> >> > > the track is UP TO 1750 cc  the next class is 1751 to 2750.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > So:  is the 1.8 under 1750 or over 1750?
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Scirocco-l mailing list
>> >> > Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
>> >> > http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>

References:
- Is the 1.8 16V really 1800 cc or is it a little less?
  - From: bmcgarvey at gmail.com (Brian McGarvey)
- Is the 1.8 16V really 1800 cc or is it a little less?
  - From: Cory_Langford at bcit.ca (Cory Langford)
- Is the 1.8 16V really 1800 cc or is it a little less?
  - From: bmcgarvey at gmail.com (Brian McGarvey)
- Is the 1.8 16V really 1800 cc or is it a little less?
  - From: jdbubb at verizon.net (Dan Bubb)
- Is the 1.8 16V really 1800 cc or is it a little less?
  - From: bmcgarvey at gmail.com (Brian McGarvey)
- Is the 1.8 16V really 1800 cc or is it a little less?
  - From: jdbubb at verizon.net (Dan Bubb)
- Is the 1.8 16V really 1800 cc or is it a little less?
  - From: bmcgarvey at gmail.com (Brian McGarvey)

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