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Turbo question re: JE Pistons
I don't want to nitpick, but JE isn't owned by Wiseco. Both companies are owned by the Dover Group along with 5 other companies that operate, apparently, pretty much autonomously, including Carillo rods, Chambon crankshaft, Perfect Bore liners.
http://www.doverpmi.com/companies.html
I think it's incorrect to state that Wiseco are premium pistons where JE are not. They simple operate, for the most part, in different markets although there is clearly some overlap.
Piston pin offset is so common that is hardly a premium feature. It's simply a design feature. Some engines have it some engines don't.
The JE pistons and Wiseco pistons pictured in my first response use identical rings. Not only size, but the shape of the face, material and finishes. No difference there and stock oil rings are not 1mm. As a matter of fact, not even a Formula 1 piston (known for their thin rings so they can turn 19,000 RPM without flutter) has an oil control ring that thin.
FWIW, the squish area on a 16V piston is the area to the RIGHT of the valve cutouts in this picture:
http://scirocco.dyn.dhs.org/vw/list/Don_Walter/WiseCo%2016V%20Pistons/DSC01779.JPG
To be effective that area should be above the block deck by .025-.030" when using a stock .065" thick head gasket.
Personally, I think the Wiseco piston is better for the 8V engine, but it's simply the fact that it had a squish band that was the proper size and height which I think is important in a turbo engine. I imagine VW engines are not a huge market for either company and they are simply providing the features that their higher volume distributors request. But that's just my imagination accounting for the apparent differences between the two.
Should anybody be interested it looks like Don did all the hard work and his pistons (presumably minus the extra valve clearance)
are now a catalog item. At the bottom of the page:
http://www.wiseco.com/PDFs/Catalogs/SC06_Volkswagen.pdf
Dan
From: "Don Walter" <dswalterwi@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Tubro question re: JE Pistons
> JE Pistons is owned by WiseCo. WiseCo is their premium pistons and are
> better design. They have many features that the JE's do not. The best one
> is that they use an offset wrist pin design to eliminate the piston slap and
> the oil scraper ring is 3mm unlike the 1mm on the stock 2.0L engine. You
> will not have good luck trying to go through their distributors as they will
> make you buy 8 pstons. I called the company direct and they were happy to
> take my order direct. In fact they did not have an off the shelf 16V design
> so they designed one on Solidworks for me. They added the domed area for the
> squish area, although you would want a dish for lower compression. Mine was
> 10.5:1 I sent them one of my pistons for verification. I had them give me
> an extra 0.050 cleareance for the valves. The best part is that they were
> cheaper than their JE counterpart and they were custom made. I paid $500 if
> I recall. Let me know if you want any other information.
>
> Here is a link to my custom made pistons:
> http://scirocco.dyn.dhs.org/vw/list/Don_Walter/WiseCo%2016V%20Pistons/
>
>
> On 12/17/06, Dan Bubb <jdbubb@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a95/jdbubb/86%20JH%20Turbo/DSC02781_small.jpg
>> On the right is a JE piston. 83mm, 9:1 CR, 8V, for an 86.4mm stroke.
>> On the left is a Wiseco piston. 83mm, 9:1 CR, 8V for a 92.8mm stroke.
>> See those little pads on the sides of the top of the Wiseco piston?
>> Those pads come within .040" of the sides of the combustion chamber that
>> you
>> can see here:
>>
>> http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a95/jdbubb/86%20JH%20Turbo/DSC02885_small.jpg
>> and form a squish area that creates turbulence in the combustion chamber
>> and
>> makes the engine more resistant to detonation.
>> IMO the Wiseco is a better piston simply for this reason.
>> The JE is in my nephew's engine and it's not as resistant to pinging as
>> we'd
>> like. i.e he can't run as much boost as he'd like.
>> My engine is just getting broken in so I can't verify that it'll be
>> better,
>> but an engine with well setup squish areas has always performed well for
>> me.
>>
>> Double head gasket lacks a squish area just like the JE piston. A
>> non-starter in my book although a lot of people do it.
>>
>> Forged pistons need a slightly larger cylinder clearance since they have
>> higher thermal expansion. I can't hear any piston slap. You just need to
>> take it easy till they warm up a little.
>>
>> Both JE and Wiseco run about $550-575 for a set of 4 with rings and pins.
>> http://www.jrcmotorsports.com/ carries JE.
>> www.porttuning.com carries Wiseco.
>> I'm sure there are other suppliers.
>> Dan
>>
>>
>> From: "David Brown" <sharpshooter33@roadrunner.com>
>> To: "scirocco scirocco" <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 11:26 PM
>> Subject: Tubro question re: JE Pistons
>>
>>
>> If I go with a 3A or 9A does anybody have experience with 2.0 16V JE 83mm
>> 9:1 Pistons?
>>
>> I also remember reading somewhere that forged pistons have a looser fit
>> than
>> cast? Is this still true or is that a story started by someone along time
>> ago.
>>
>> What is a good price for them and where can I get them?
>> What would my other options be? I have also heard of the double head
>> gasket
>> method.
>>
>> Thanks
>> David
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>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Don Walter - Waukesha, WI
> 1986 8V Black Scirocco (Daily Driver)
> 1984 8V Audi 4000s (RIP 2/14/2006)
> 1986 2.0L 16V TEC 2 Black Scirocco (see progress at
> http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/708939)
> 1986 2L 16V Toronado Red Scirocco (Ben's Car)
> 1988 1.8 16V Toronado Red Scirocco (sold on 3/29/04)
> 1984 1.8 8V Pewter Scirocco (sold years ago)
> 1971 Karman Ghia (sold)
> 1969 Karman Ghia (sold)
> 1969 Beetle (sold)
>