VW Coolant

[gatesj at mailblocks.com (John Gates)]

I think this discussion is interesting, one of the hits from the google 
search I mentioned before:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=000112;p=0

-----Original Message-----
From: David Utley <fahrvegnugen@cox.net>
To: John Gates <gatesj@mailblocks.com>; tyrone27@gmail.com
Cc: scirocco-l@scirocco.org; glxtasy@hotmail.com
Sent: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:31:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Re: VW Coolant

John,
   Thanks for the details.  I had not seen the Blue Coolant (G11) ooze 
out of
fittings like I have with the Red Coolant (G12).  Anyone else seen this 
stuff
ooze out?

If the hose is about to fail, then I could see this happening.  As the 
hose
weakens, it looses its' tension and since the cooling system is under 
pressure,
it would push it's way out at the weakest link.

Perhaps this is what I am seeing with the G12, as it is normally at the 
water
outlets on the A4s.  They are all plastic, and we sell them pretty
consistently...

Thanks again John for your experience, and especially for the link.  I 
will be
sifting through there today...

David
>
> From: John Gates <gatesj@mailblocks.com>
> Date: 2005/06/16 Thu AM 11:12:55 EDT
> To: fahrvegnugen@cox.net,  tyrone27@gmail.com
> CC: scirocco-l@scirocco.org,  glxtasy@hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: Re: VW Coolant
>
> The novel:
>
> That's a real good question... I did read a lot about different
> coolants and one thing that pops into mind is that the silicates are
> bad because they can be slightly abrasive to water pump bearings and
> after a while they precipitate out and make a gummy mess if you don't
> keep it changed, but the upside is not only are they a good corrosion
> inhibitor, but they will actually patch erosion damage on water pump
> impellers that comes from cavitation.  G-12 has nothing similar in it
> to "patch".  I also understand that how traditional coolants inhibit
> corrosion is that they deposit a very thin layer of their inhibitors,
> whether they are phospates, silicates, borates, or a combination of
> these, on all surfaces inside the cooling system.  This insulates the
> parts from any corrosive elements.  G-12 or other OAT coolants do not
> do this, they are formulated to make the solution not corrosive for a
> longer period of time.
>
> I have had, especially on my VR6, blue crusties at the end of hoses
> where they clamp onto fittings, well in advance of hose failure.  The
> first time I didn't recognize what was happening, I just thought I
> wasn't getting a good seal, and then the hose finally burst at a ring
> of weakened material just ahead of the fitting barb.  What was
> happening was that the inside of the hose at this "ring" had finally
> given way and the coolant was getting into that middle layer with the
> fabric and migrating up to the end of the hose through there.  I 
never
> really lost an appreciable amount of coolant while this was going on
> though.
>
> I wonder if the blue stuff is better at "repairing" or plugging tiny
> leaks like this because of the silicates, and just masking a problem
> that is already there, while the G12 is not?  I know I saw tiny 
pitting
> on my cylinder head inlets on my Scirocco where the o-ring goes.
>
> I personally think that the G-12 was VW's attempt at trying to shield
> themselves from customers who don't maintain their cars during the
> warranty period.  I bought my VR6 new, didn't change the blue stuff
> until about 3 years, when it had JUST started turning greenish 
yellow.
> 3 years was well within my 10 year/100,000 mile powertrain warranty,
> and if I had let it go, I might have had headgasket leakage from
> pitting that they might have had to fix.  I have since changed 
coolant
> at least every 2 years and have not had headgasket problems or any
> other unusual cooling system problems, corrosion or deposit buildups 
in
> 8 years and 150,000 miles.  The inside of my cooling system is as 
clean
> as can be and my water pump lasted until about 135,000 miles, quite
> high for a VR6.  The blue stuff is great if it's maintained properly. 

> I did not have my Scirocco for the first 10 years of its life and it
> came to me with nasty old green stuff so I cannot say if it would 
have
> been in better shape with blue that was changed often.
>
> This is one of the places I remember reading a bit about the 
chemistry
> in layman's terms that I could understand:
> http://www.imcool.com/articles/antifreeze-coolant/
>
> John Gates
> --
> '85 Scirocco
> '97 Jetta GLX
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Utley <fahrvegnugen@cox.net>
> To: John Gates <gatesj@mailblocks.com>; tyrone27@gmail.com
> Cc: scirocco-l@scirocco.org; glxtasy@hotmail.com
> Sent: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:02:39 -0400
> Subject: Re: Re: VW Coolant
>
> No please, nitpick away...  :-)
>
> So, on the reddy-pink G12, why do you think this stuff oozes out of 
the
> connections at the head or at the T-stat?  This is what I have seen 
on
> the A1s,
> which is why I will not recommend the G12 now as an upgrade...
>
> I am interested in your take, it sounds like you have a bit more
> schooling/hands
> on on this...
>
> David
> >
> > From: John Gates <gatesj@mailblocks.com>
> > Date: 2005/06/15 Wed PM 01:23:38 EDT
> > To: fahrvegnugen@cox.net,  tyrone27@gmail.com
> > CC: scirocco-l@scirocco.org,  glxtasy@hotmail.com
> > Subject: Re: Re: VW Coolant
> >
> > The red G-12 is silicate free, but the G-11 aka G-48 most definitely
> > has silicates, it is one of the most abundant corrosion inhibitors 
in
> > that preparation.  The silicate is what precipitates out in the G-11
> > after a while, leaving the gooey mess at some of the connections, 
and
> > this is one of the reasons why they went to G-12.
> >
> > There is nothing wrong even with phosphates if you don't use hard
> > water, hard water makes phosphates precipitate out and cause all 
sorts
> > of problems.
> >
> > Note that the G-12 bottle says "phosphate and silicate free" since
> it's
> > a true OAT technology coolant (unlike Dex-Cool which is a hybrid 
OAT),
> > and the G-48 says only "phosphate free".
> >
> > Just nitpicking here.
> >
> > John Gates
> > --
> > '85 Scirocco
> > '97 Jetta GLX
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Utley <fahrvegnugen@cox.net>
> > To: John Gates <gatesj@mailblocks.com>; tyrone27@gmail.com
> > Cc: scirocco-l@scirocco.org; glxtasy@hotmail.com
> > Sent: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:20:21 -0400
> > Subject: Re: Re: VW Coolant
> >
> >
> > >
> > > From: John Gates <gatesj@mailblocks.com>
> > > Date: 2005/06/15 Wed AM 11:38:45 EDT
> > > To: tyrone27@gmail.com
> > > CC: scirocco-l@scirocco.org,  glxtasy@hotmail.com
> > > Subject: Re: VW Coolant
> >
> > > Sounds like another opiton.  I think that like VW blue, Toyota 
red
> is
> > > not that much different from green except it has high borates and
> low
> > > silicates or something.
> >
> >
> > I am told that VWs need coolant that is phosphate and silicate 
free...
> >
> > David
> >
> > '83 GTI, Daily Driver...
> > '87 16V, parts car
> > '82 pickup, 2.0 16V, collecting dust...
> >
>
> '83 GTI, Daily Driver...
> '87 16V, parts car
> '82 pickup, 2.0 16V, collecting dust...
>

'83 GTI, Daily Driver...
'87 16V, parts car
'82 pickup, 2.0 16V, collecting dust...