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EFI swap information / opinions
Brian, thanks for the information, and with all information it will
generate more questions.
Also, it is not yelling unless you use all CAPS!
Thanks, Rick K.
-----Original Message-----
From: scirocco-l-bounces@scirocco.org
[mailto:scirocco-l-bounces@scirocco.org] On Behalf Of Brian
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 10:04 PM
To: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
Subject: EFI swap information / opinions
I feel I should probably make up for yelling at people. So is a little
information on what is entailed in a swap. I'll be happy to answer
questions.
The basic breakdown is for NATURALLY aspirated vw 4clyns weighted toward
16v's.
So here's the basic rundown.
Any CIS-* car has the basic problem of a "frying pan" choking the
intake,
200 whp is doable, but you need to apply plenty of money. 150whp is easy
and you dont have to change anything in the CIS-* fueling system to get
there Just cams, Tbody, exhaust,
poof your there. And you can even tune it to the bently spec. that you
can
buy at www.parts4vws.com <plug for a sponsor>.
<plug for sponsor>
www.deltacam.com is a great place for cams, and it keeps the cost down
too. you should expect to pay about $200 for a set of regrinds.
The throttle body get one off a audi 5k, they are bigger ie. more air in
a
CIS-* car == more fuel == more HP.
*
So now you've decided you want technology from this decade. EFI sounds
like the way to go. Do you go with a stock VW system or an aftermarket.
If you compare the cost of a DIY style(MS,VEMS vs. Motronic, Digi1) etc.
its about the same, but commercial Standalones your ticket to start
playing is about 1500 - 2000 bucks for the electronics. you havent
broken
into the physical stuff yet.
Guess on costs
Commercial standalone 8v (1800 + shop time)
16v (2000 + shop time)
DIY -- style
Stock VW/Audi conversion 8v (400 + your time)
16v (600 + your time)
Megasquirt conversion 8v (400 + your time)
16v (600 + your time)
VEMS conversion 8v (500 + your time )
16v (700 + your time )
* A little information about Megasquirt and VEMS
Megasquirt --
Looked into it decided on something else that could do spark too.
So what is a Megasquirt going to cost you, well I dont actually know you
should ask a lister who has one running, but
For a current MS conversion your left with the problem of not being able
to change your spark curve without a second box. The flyback ckt and
otherstuff you
dont really need as im assuming your not going for a forced induction
very
high HP car. The box has to be kept in the passenger compartment as it
is
not designed to be in a harsh environment -- if you follow thier
instructions.
VEMS --
<The GRM car uses this>
I do know you can buy a similarly partially assembled ready to program
VEMS board here for $226 + shipping. You'll need more parts.
http://shop.x-dsl.hu/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1&products_id=29
or you can buy a ready to go version for $538 here.
http://shop.x-dsl.hu/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1&products_id=48
Look up GrmRacer on the VEMS page alot information of this is there.
http://www.vems-group.org/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FGrmRacer
the circuits for v2.2
http://www.vems-group.org/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FGrmRacer%2FGrmCir
cuits
*************************************************************
Checklist for conversions first draft
** Items required for any standalone EFI conversion for a CIS-* car
TPS on a throttle body
vac port for map sensor
new intake/air filter
Air Temp sensor or MAF (mechanical or electrica) system
dependent
Coolant temp sensor to replace thermotime switch
Fuel Rail
Fuel Pressure Regulator
Mounting bracket for Fuel filter
Braided hose for fuel line to hook into your system.
I recommend quick connects, The ford ones are great.
Dyno time for tuning
By just ditching the CIS, you should gain ~25HP, poorly tuned.
Connect up TP, FP, & O2 heater relay (single wire)
A method to trigger the EFI
Dont mess with the coolant fan bit yours works already off the
Temp fan switch.
Megasquirt convrsion
Megasquirt can trigger off the Tach output, just hook to the
side of the coil that feeds the tach it will
be a little noisy but will still work
replace the thermotime switch with the GM sensor (Metric vs.
SAE)
WBO2 box. Makes the car actually tunable.
Laptop required
VEMS conversion
Hooks directly up to the Hall output of the Distributor
to drive spark & fuel
Already does Ignition
Already does Knock
Already does EGT
Circuit diagrams already avail on VEMS site for v2.2 v3.0 coming
Does Nitrous if you want it
Drives WB02 ( the VW one its cheap $29.00) cheaper than the
3wire
I have fuel and spark maps available and will be avail by email
A full on conversion kit (various stages of completion) will be
available fairly soon ie. less than 6 mo.
Thats all for now.
Brian
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