got shocks?

[tomc at satx.rr.com (tomc)]

Yea, I'm afraid if I get real race springs the poor old Boges are going
to suck. But, budgetary matters dictate one thing at a time, especially
for $500 Koni's. So, I think I'm back to getting shocks first, then race
springs, then playing with sway bars.

Quaife or Peloquin I'd love to, that's further down my budgetary list
unfortunately. I'm running in DM so rules aren't much of a concern, it's
all in the budget.

I get on that list also, I can always use more tips and info.

Again, thanks all for the help,

TomC
'79 "The Project" Scirocco 
http://www.tom-c.com



On Thu, 2004-07-22 at 11:45, Dan Bubb wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tomc" <tomc@satx.rr.com>
> To: "Dan Bubb" <jdbubb@ix.netcom.com>
> Cc: "Allyn" <amalventano@sc.rr.com>; "Scirocco list" <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 10:42 AM
> Subject: Re: got shocks?
> 
> 
> > OK then, is lifting the rear wheel necessarily a bad thing?
> 
> Not necessarily. With the sudden transitions inherent in autocrossing you get more body roll than
> you would expect for the cornering force due to the rotational inertia of the body when entering the
> turn. And the Scirocco is pretty front heavy so lifting a rear is to be expected.
> 
> >  Am I losing
> > that much time by not cornering as flat as other cars.
> 
> Probably! Your transition time into the turn is slower while you wait for the body to finish rolling
> and the ulimate grip is less cause your tires are leaned over so far.
> 
> > Maybe I'll
> > re-think this and go to stiffer springs first then play with sway bars.
> > Right now my car is handling pretty neutral (meaning I tend to slide
> > sideways in a corner instead of over-steering or under-steering) when
> > pushed depending on my tire pressures. I can also induce some over-steer
> > when wanted.
> 
> Huge plus while autocrossing to be able to induce lift throttle oversteer. Really helps you point it
> into the turn. I bet you can increase your overall roll stiffness quite a bit and keep your current
> balance.
> Stiffer springs are really going to overpower your current shocks though!
> 
> >  I kind of like this balance, I just want to make the car
> > stick better. I have the CRX beat in torque and straight line speed, but
> > it out corners me. Another problem is putting the power down after the
> > turn, I tend to spin the tires or not use nearly the power I have on tap
> > until I'm fully straight.
> 
> Ah! No Peloquin or Quaife! There's at least two people on the list that can install one for you ;^)
> (if it's legal in your class that is)
> >
> > Is this boring everyone? Should I take this to the VWautoX list (I
> > didn't know there was one)?
> 
> I'm not bored, but for your info
> 
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vwautox/
> 
> Dan
> >
> > TomC
> > '79 "The Project" Scirocco
> > http://www.tom-c.com
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 2004-07-22 at 10:44, Dan Bubb wrote:
> > > If your inner rear tire is in the air then putting a bigger rear bar on the car will only lift
> the
> > > rear tire higher in the air!
> > > Once you've got a tire in the air adding roll stiffness to that end will do no good.
> > > Putting a bigger front bar on would reduce overall roll. It may seem counterintuitive but a
> bigger
> > > front bar will probably increase your cornering speed.
> > > Normally a bigger front bar will increase understeer, but in the autocross environment where
> you've
> > > already got a rear tire in the air putting a larger front bar will reduce overall roll and as a
> > > result the front tires are more perpendicular to the road and will grip better. (at least that's
> > > some of the consensus of the VWautocross yahoo group)
> > > Normally I wouldn't consider poly bushings, but again, in this environment the stiffer bushings
> > > would probably make a big contribution to limiting unwanted positive camber due to bushing
> > > deflection.
> > > Getting back to the shocks. I have Koni's (and damned old ones at that!) on my 84 with Eibach
> > > springs and new Gabriels (which are supposed to be equivalent to Boge's) on my 87 with H & R
> > > springs. There is absolutely no comparison in terms of stability and control between the two
> cars.
> > > Where the 87 bobs and weaves and floats thru turns the 84 is just totally buttoned down.
> > > I think in the autocross environment Konis or Bilstiens would make a huge difference although it
> > > hasn't been my experience that they will necessarily keep your back tires on the ground.
> > > http://www.funksoulkitty.org/miscpics/autocross2_t.jpg
> > >
> > > Dan
> > >
> > >
> >
> >