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WTB: 3a from Audi 80

Subject: WTB: 3a from Audi 80
From: jdbubb at ix.netcom.com (Dan Bubb)
Date: Wed Apr 7 15:01:37 2004
References: <Pine.LNX.4.40.0404062013530.8325-100000@sleek.unrealexpectations.ath.cx><1081356530.8350.184065230@webmail.messagingengine.com><200404071812.i37ICK46020253@hsb102.xlccorp.com><002001c41ccf$9ea24860$a809b9d0@4WAVEINC><200404071928.i37JSHPB013991@hsb102.xlccorp.com>


> The first part was interesting and informative, but the latter half seems to
> show your personal bias towards me, more than relating any experience with the
> matter at hand...  :-)

Only cause you are SO Goddamned sensitive!

>
> Quoting Dan Bubb <jdbubb@ix.netcom.com>:
>
> > As far as where they're made, companies generally have COMPANY standards and
> > procedures. i.e. the
> > inspection procedures, quality control, manufacturing processes are the same
> > throughout the company
> > irrespective of country. It's not like there's a German master machinist
> > carefully producing every
> > crank to 0.0001" tolerances. Engines are manufactured by machines.
> > But to each his own personal bias.
> > Dan
> >
> Engine -componnents- are made by machines, but engines themselves are
> asembled/test-run/what-have-you by people, not machines...

Manufacturers assemble engines using specialized tools and fixtures. It's nothing like any of us, or
even a VW dealer, use rebuilding an engine. There might be a guy maning the tools, but it's
incredibly automated. I really doubt that the tools and processes are designed and implemented
locally. They don't design these tools and processes for the highest common denomintor. They design
them so the average Joe off the street can assemble a complete engine in .25 man-hours.

>Again, I realize
> that I am biased to a degree, as I see the leavings of what others have abused
> and broken.  However, in my experience, ALL mexican made VWs are more likely
> to have a higher failure rate, regardless of where the components are made.
> To continue, mexican parts are made more poorly in fit and finish, not to even
> comment on their longevity.

That's funny cause the pistons and rods and crank in my ABA are equal to the parts in my JH. I took
it apart and looked at it and measured it before installing it. I think you're overstating to
justify your bias.

> If you were where I am now, you would agree... :-)

> The comment made about engines being made to company standards is true, in
> theory.  Here in the trenches, I see that it is not always the case in
> practice...
>
> To whomever originally posted the questions on the 3A, take my advice as it
> was given, advice from my experience...  I wish you well in your endeavor...
>
> To Dan, you have never responded to my repeated private apologies...

I don't get it. What's the big deal? What are the apologies for? When I think you're wrong I say so.
I'm not picking on you personally. I just happen to disagree with you alot.

 I bear
> you no ill will, and yet you seem to carry some towards me...  It does not
> bother me that you do not agree with what I type, I invite
> criticism/conversation over what is being discussed. However, I do wish that
> you would approach me more as a fellow VW owner/lover, instead of just a thorn
> in your or the lists' side...

Sorry I disagree with you so much. I'm also sorry you seem to be so personally sensitive. Give it a
break!
Dan




>
> Regards,
>   David
>
> ----The sensitive one....
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Utley" <mr.utility@highstream.net>
> > To: "Dumitru Hociung" <greasemonkey@veryspeedy.net>
> > Cc: "Scirocco list" <Scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 2:12 PM
> > Subject: Re: WTB: 3a from Audi 80
> >
> >
> > The 3A is the same height motor as ours, unlike the ABA which is 15 or 16 mm
> > taller...  Because of this, the crank and rods are different to make up for
> > the lack of height...  Also, all years are with a forged crank, and ALL are
> > made in germany, while the ABA are all made in Mexico...  I am biased, but I
> > would rather have a german engine over a mexican one...  Way to many
> > failures...
> >
> > HTH
> >
> > David Utley
> > Quoting Dumitru Hociung <greasemonkey@veryspeedy.net>:
> >
> > > just curious, if you're going to rebuild it (as in with new pistons) why
> > > does it have to be a 3A? Afaik the 9A is for all intents and purposes
> > > identical, same block, crank, rods, squirters, etc. The oil pump and
> > > intermediate shaft might be different but aren't they otherwise
> > > interchangeable?
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:36:11 -0500 (CDT), "stetson"
> > > <tim@unrealexpectations.ath.cx> said:
> > > > Hey Mr.
> > > >
> > > > I have JUST been down this road! The 3A block is in the shop right now
> > to
> > > > get checked for tolerences.
> > > >
> > > > It took me 3 mo. to find one.
> > > >
> > > > Look for 4 cyl. 80's and 90's (you probably already know this) and TELL
> > > > NO
> > > > ONE if you find one.
> > > >
> > > > I know of 2 sources right now. Patrick said a friend of his that was
> > > > interested in a 3A project but went another way and had one (I was never
> > > > able to find out if he wanted to sell it or not) and there is the one I
> > > > was going to buy from Michigan until I found mine in a local boneyard
> > for
> > > > much less.
> > > > It had 100K+ mi. on it and was EXPENSIVE (even though I was going to pay
> > > > it) at $395 for long block Maybe it'll be less for short block). Email
> > me
> > > > direct if you want this guy's email. This guy had distributor AND knock
> > > > sensor harness to sell too but the cost was just under $500 w/o
> > > > shipping!!!
> > > >
> > > > While I'm on the subject, why you need short block only? You going to
> > run
> > > > w/o a knock sensor/distributor setup? Everything I've seen says you get
> > > > marginal gains for that and true performance is found w/ the knock
> > > > sensor harness and electronics.
> > > > Just a heads up.
> > > >
> > > > If you DO go knock sensor route, get the 3A distributor as then you
> > don't
> > > > need a cheater for a 8v/16v(knock sensor) VW distributor.
> > > >
> > > > GAK motorsports sells the breather block off plate and so does Peter at
> > > > www.scirocco.com, but GAK sells them that are already milled to accept
> > > > the
> > > > fuel sending unit in it's stock place. Peter's are much cheaper but not
> > > > milled that way.
> > > >
> > > > That's as much as I know right now but when the block gets back from the
> > > > machine shop I'll be able to give you a bit of a map as to the gotchas
> > > > that can happen as I'll (hopefully) be putting mine in before yours.
> > > >
> > > > Now......need to know anything about 9A tranny gotchas?  ;^}
> > > >
> > > > HTH,
> > > >
> > > > Tim
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Life.  Don't talk to me about life.
> > > > - Marvin the Paranoid Anroid
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 6 Apr 2004, Bryan Rankin wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Lookin for a 3a, miles don't matter, looking for SHORT BLOCK ONLY.
> > I've
> > > > > called every yard in my yellow pages, and have had no luck, so i'm
> > open
> > > to
> > > > > all offers.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Bryan
> > > > > 81 Volkswagen Scirocco
> > > > >
> > > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > MSN Premium with Virus Guard and Firewall* from McAfee? Security : 2
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> >
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> > > > >
> > > > >
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > David Utley
> > -----------
> > Cable Volkswagen
> > 405-470-3129
> > 1-800-522-6793
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
> >
> >
>
>
>
> David Utley
> -----------
> Cable Volkswagen
> 405-470-3129
> 1-800-522-6793

Follow-Ups:
- Pissing contest continued: 3A and ABA
  - From: mr.utility at highstream.net (David Utley)

References:
- WTB: 3a from Audi 80
  - From: tim at unrealexpectations.ath.cx (stetson)
- WTB: 3a from Audi 80
  - From: greasemonkey at veryspeedy.net (Dumitru Hociung)
- WTB: 3a from Audi 80
  - From: mr.utility at highstream.net (David Utley)
- WTB: 3a from Audi 80
  - From: jdbubb at ix.netcom.com (Dan Bubb)
- WTB: 3a from Audi 80
  - From: mr.utility at highstream.net (David Utley)

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