full thottle switch

[aaroncarr at ntlworld.com (Aaron)]

I stand corrected - thanks for putting me straight

I've been running around for twenty odd years with the analogy the 
wrong way round - maybe my physics teacher was rubbish, but it's more 
likely I just wasn't paying attention!

Onelove

Aaron


On Saturday, Sep 20, 2003, at 22:51 Europe/London, T. Reed wrote:

> On Sat, 20 Sep 2003, Aaron wrote:
>
>> You got it the wrong way round!!!
>
> 'fraid not. But I'd love to see a source that says I'm wrong.. if you 
> can
> find one.
>
> -Toby
>
>> On Saturday, Sep 20, 2003, at 01:27 Europe/London, T. Reed wrote:
>>
>>> Umm, no...
>>>
>>> A voltmeter measures voltage, which is like pressure in a pipe. In
>>> order
>>> to do this it just "attaches to a fitting" on the circuit.
>>>
>>> A ammeter measures current, which is like flow through a pipe. In
>>> order to
>>> do so it has to lie in line with the pipe (like a valve).
>>>
>>> And, just like a valve or a "flow meter", it behaves to the rest of 
>>> the
>>> circuit as a normal piece of pipe, but with measuring capabilities.
>>> A short circuit (but with measuring capabilities, heh!).
>>>
>>> If you need a better explanation please say so.
>>>
>>> But trust me, I've seen more than enough people blow the fuse in 
>>> their
>>> multimeter by hooking it up to a circuit as if it were a voltmeter.
>>>
>>> -Toby
>>>
>>> On Fri, 19 Sep 2003, L F wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nope.
>>>>   Substitute 'voltmeter' for ammeter....
>>>>
>>>> Larry
>>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>>   From: T. Reed
>>>>   To: ATS - Patrick Bureau
>>>>   Cc: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
>>>>   Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 12:11 PM
>>>>   Subject: RE: full thottle switch
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Uh... that's not good!
>>>>
>>>>   You ought to try to remember that whenever you connect an ammeter 
>>>> to
>>>>   something you are shorting it out!
>>>>
>>>>   -Toby
>>>>
>>>>   On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, ATS - Patrick Bureau wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> my setup is CIS with knock box 2L 8v.
>>>>>
>>>>> I tried to get mA from the testing plug (near brake booster) but I
>>>>> can
>>>>> onlyget mVolts from it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ATS - Patrick Bureau - txrocco@sbcglobal.net
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------
>>>>> MSN:ATSGTX@hotmail.com |YAHOO:ATSGTX@yahoo.com
>>>>> ICQ:32918816           |AIM:Texasscirocco
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> =>-----Original Message-----
>>>>> =>From: scirocco-l-bounces@scirocco.org
>>>>> =>[mailto:scirocco-l-bounces@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Dan Bubb
>>>>> =>Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 11:08 AM
>>>>> =>To: Rhett Farnum; t.piwonka@ttu.edu; scirocco-l@scirocco.org
>>>>> =>Subject: Re: full thottle switch
>>>>> =>
>>>>> =>
>>>>> =>Got me!
>>>>> =>They may have a ground or power wire in common, but that's all.
>>>>> =>Maybe somebody rewired your car?
>>>>> =>Using the cold start injector to provide additional fuel has been
>>>>> =>hashed out
>>>>> =>endlessly by everybody thinking they need more fuel, but it's a
>>>>> crummy
>>>>> =>solution because 1) the distribution between cylinders sucks 2)
>>>>> =>there is no
>>>>> =>control over the quantity of fuel injected, it's either off or 
>>>>> on.
>>>>> =>Doesn't keep people from trying it.
>>>>> =>If your WOT switch does activate your cold start injector you
>>>>> might think
>>>>> =>about rewiring back to the original schematic cause it would
>>>>> certainly be
>>>>> =>injecting more fuel than your engine needs.
>>>>> =>Dan
>>>>> =>
>>>>> =>
>>>>> =>> If it doesn't use the cold start injector why is my switch
>>>>> =>wired to it???
>>>>> =>>
>>>>> =>>
>>>>> =>>
>>>>> =>> Peace Out,
>>>>> =>> Rhett
>>>>> =>> Rocco_crossing
>>>>> =>> '83 Rocco (autocross ready, tune up, install harness, and
>>>>> finally I may
>>>>> =>get
>>>>> =>> to makeing it look better!!)
>>>>> =>>
>>>>> =>>
>>>>> =>>
>>>>> =>>
>>>>> =>>
>>>>> =>> >From: "Dan Bubb" <jdbubb@ix.netcom.com>
>>>>> =>> >To: "Rhett Farnum" <rocco_crossing@hotmail.com>,
>>>>> <t.piwonka@ttu.edu>,
>>>>> =>> >  <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
>>>>> =>> >Subject: Re: full thottle switch
>>>>> =>> >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 08:01:34 -0400
>>>>> =>> >
>>>>> =>> >It does not use the cold start injector!
>>>>> =>> >The cold start injector is used only when the engine is
>>>>> =>cranking (and not
>>>>> =>> >always then) and no other time.
>>>>> =>> >
>>>>> =>> >The full throttle switch increases DPR current on CIS-E (16V),
>>>>> which
>>>>> =>> >increases fuel flow through the normal injectors.
>>>>> =>> >On CIS-lambda (8V) it increases the duty cycle of the 
>>>>> frequency
>>>>> valve
>>>>> =>again
>>>>> =>> >increasing fuel flow through the normal injectors.
>>>>> =>> >
>>>>> =>> >On CIS-lambda closing the switch almost always increases
>>>>> =>engine speed and
>>>>> =>> >smoothes out the idle (especially if you have a big cam)
>>>>> because the
>>>>> =>engine
>>>>> =>> >goes open loop (stops looking at O2 sensor output) and richens
>>>>> the
>>>>> =>mixture
>>>>> =>> >and most engines like to idle richer than stochiometric.
>>>>> =>> >NOTE: I guess this assumes your car is correctly tuned and FV
>>>>> =>duty cycle
>>>>> =>> >oscillates around 50% at idle.
>>>>> =>> >
>>>>> =>> >On CIS-E closing the switch again causes the engine to go open
>>>>> =>loop. DPR
>>>>> =>> >current is supposed to go to 16mA if engine speed is over 2500
>>>>> =>RPM. On my
>>>>> =>> >car DPR current goes to a steady 8mA with the car idling. I'm
>>>>> not
>>>>> =>> >absolutely
>>>>> =>> >sure how the engine will respond by closing the switch at 
>>>>> idle.
>>>>> I would
>>>>> =>> >assume if the mixture is set at 10mA (Bentley recommended
>>>>> setting) then
>>>>> =>if
>>>>> =>> >it goes to 8mA by pressing the switch the engine will lean out
>>>>> a little
>>>>> =>and
>>>>> =>> >drop a few RPM. In any event I don't think it will make a huge
>>>>> =>difference
>>>>> =>> >as
>>>>> =>> >long as your mixture is tuned correctly.
>>>>> =>> >Dan
>>>>> =>> >
>>>>> =>> >
>>>>> =>> > > It uses the cold start injector. If you ahve voltage that
>>>>> means you
>>>>> =>> >injector
>>>>> =>> > > is either shot or clogged. Try fom fuel inj. cleaner and if
>>>>> that
>>>>> =>doesn't
>>>>> =>> > > work replace. ~$5 at a bone yrd.
>>>>> =>> > >
>>>>> =>> > >
>>>>> =>> > >
>>>>> =>> > > Peace Out,
>>>>> =>> > > Rhett
>>>>> =>> > > Rocco_crossing
>>>>> =>> > > '83 Rocco (autocross ready, tune up, install harness, and
>>>>> finally I
>>>>> =>may
>>>>> =>> >get
>>>>> =>> > > to makeing it look better!!)
>>>>> =>> > >
>>>>> =>> > >
>>>>> =>> > >
>>>>> =>> > >
>>>>> =>> > >
>>>>> =>> > > >From: "Robert Piwonka" <t.piwonka@ttu.edu>
>>>>> =>> > > >To: "scirocco" <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
>>>>> =>> > > >Subject: full thottle switch
>>>>> =>> > > >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 00:48:07 -0500
>>>>> =>> > > >
>>>>> =>> > > >When I press the full throttle switch at idle should the
>>>>> car bog
>>>>> =>down?
>>>>> =>> > > >Cause it doesn't.  However I tested the voltage on the
>>>>> output and I
>>>>> =>> >gets
>>>>> =>> > > >12v
>>>>> =>> > > >when activated and not 12v when not, so it appears to be
>>>>> working.
>>>>> =>> > > >
>>>>> =>> > > >Also how does the full throttle switch richen the mixture?
>>>>> Does it
>>>>> =>> >change
>>>>> =>> > > >the dpr current or use the cold start injector or what?
>>>>> =>> > > >
>>>>> =>> > > >Thanks
>>>>> =>> > > >Robert Piwonka
>>>>> =>> > > >
>>>>> =>> > > >
>>>>> =>> > > >_______________________________________________
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>>>>> =>> > >
>>>>> =>> > >
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