New to the list-Paint Jobs

[Ron at Bunch.org (Ron@Bunch.org)]

$3500 dealer repaint $8000 private restoration are fair numbers for good work.
Remember there's a difference between  repaint and restoration: quality aside.
Beating the dead horse, it is all in the preparation and you can't paint 
over errors.
If your car has body damage errors, that's a factor you need to consider in 
making a final top coat deal with a selected body shop.
I consider myself a master painter, but I don't give bodywork advice: even 
no fee.
But, I'll stick with you do the hard word prep and taping then let a good 
painter do the top coat and you'll have $3500 plus results for ca. $500.
A really good top coat requires too sterile an environment and too much 
learned spray technique to waste the prep effort.  Top coat may appear to 
be the easiest, but it isn't.

Don't belittle the fumes from even paint remover. I'd take some spray jobs 
on for fee myself, but am saving my liver for beer. The friend since 1956 
whose shop  did my son's 72 Ghia topcoat in  Porsche Guard's Red in 1988 is 
now dead of liver damage: probably from the nasty 2 component stuff that is 
so tough as either a primer or topcoat. Respect that stuff.
In 1982, I lit some critical organs up with unprotected exposure to 
industrial strength/non OSHA approved paint remover while living in 
Germany. It is best described as a chainsaw cutting between my chest and 
brain center. Not on my favorite life experience list. Now, I keep a proper 
vapor filter mask in reach. Masks are cheaper than livers and brains, even 
mine.
Doctor says my liver still works.
No measurement on brain function, but cat scans read V.A.G.




At 03:04 AM 11/17/03 +0000, you wrote:
>Thanks for a VERY informative post.  I definitely now have a very 
>different perspective on how I am going to do this.
>  When I first got the car, it had oak leaf imprints in the roof, and 
> faded paint all over one side of the care while the other side looked 
> O.K.  That should have been an obvious indicator of some bodywork, but I 
> was in love with the car so I didn't care.  Turns out the passenger 
> fender had been replaced, along with the passenger door, but nothing 
> major.  So off I was to the nice body shop - friends of my uncle, blah 
> blah - you get the picture.
>I didn't know anything about paintjobs, so I though for my 500 dollars I 
>was getting a primo deal.  I didn't even take off the roof rain gutters, 
>headlights, or any of the trim.  So I get the car back, and of course 
>there is paint all over everything, but it looks ok from about five feet 
>away.
>But ever since the day I got it back, I've seen cars with proffessional 
>paint jobs and it makes me pretty pissed.  I do understand though that I 
>did get a very good deal for 500.  I appreciate what I have, but now that 
>I've learned more I want something better.
>    Last year I had the passenger fender flare replaced after it was 
> cracked by a piece of road debris.  It cost 400 bucks in body work.  What 
> did I get? peeling paint within a couple months, and sheet metal screws 
> to replace the original factory hardware to hold it in place.  They just 
> shot a used fender flare without priming it with flexible primer or 
> anything.  Moral of the story - If you want a job done right, you do it 
> yourself.
>     I've gotten quotes from 3500$ at Volkswagen, and 8000 up at a 
> restoration shop.  I just can't afford that now, so I would like to do 
> the prep work myself, and have someone else shoot the top coat.  I'm just 
> starting to research this, so your post gives me a great starting 
> point.  I really appreciate your taking the time to explain it. Hopefully 
> I can start getting the materials together, and plan on doing this next summer.
>
>Thanks,
>Aaron
>
>
>>From: Ron@Bunch.org
>>To: "Aaron Aunins" <aaunins20@hotmail.com>,scirocco-l@scirocco.org
>>Subject: Re: New to the list-Paint Jobs
>>Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 19:48:10 -0500
>>
>>Welcome to the list. I'm new too. having owned VW products before most 
>>list members were probably born,  I have to admit most know more about 
>>Sciroccos than do I. But I've restored many good cars on budget. 
>>Advantage: I spray painted professionally when I was 8 years old and that 
>>was more than 50 years ago.
>>Here's the bad news.
>>If your paint's peeling and you care about the car's future, you have to 
>>go to bare metal.go to the bare metal.
>>If you need the car as a daily driver, that could be tough, but grad 
>>students can figure it out.
>>No shortcuts here.
>>1A. Find the best shop in town and pay them to do the best job (probably 
>>off budget) Guess at results.
>>1B. Go to one of the franchised paint shops from the TV ads and have a 
>>good job for a few hundred $ then watch it peel next year.
>>OR (and this is really the best result for the money)
>>  1C. Find a LOCAL friendly, quality, well established, privately owned 
>> auto body/paint shop, and ask him what the fee is for a top coat in your 
>> desired color over a well prepared base. The spray job labour and the 
>> cost of the paint will be your biggest cost. Make the deal for a top coat.
>>2. Find a decent window for the stripping. (Nice weather, other 
>>transportation to school)
>>3. Find a professional auto paint dealer, talk to them and buy a lethal 
>>vapor filtering mask, and then a gallon of their nastiest paint stripper.
>>4. Remove all  window glass, trim, molding, door handles, lights, sunroof 
>>seal, antenna, bumpers, plastic body trim., mirrors: anything that 
>>touches external paint.  Leave a gap between body and fender (purists 
>>remove the fenders and carry them to the paint booth.)
>>5. Remove the doors and rubber.
>>6. Remove the hood, hatchback and rubber.
>>7. Buy a case of best beer . (I recommend Warsteiner.)
>>8. Open one beer and drink it while you think about the next step. (or 
>>drink the beer and do step 9 before step 4. That works too. A great 
>>motivator because you can't reverse it easily.)
>>9. Put on the protective mask. Open the paint stripper and pour it  in 
>>the middle of the roof. Let sit whilst you open another beer. (You've 
>>passed the toughest part.). I did my 74 911SC by having the beer first 
>>then pouring the stripper on the roof before removing parts. Beer and 
>>lack of protective mask were a bad combination. But, it all turned out 
>>well, because I was committed. (I totally dismantled the car, door 
>>latches, every screw, sealed the engine compartment, painted inside the 
>>fenders. Only took me 6 weeks at 12 hours a day. My satisfaction was in a 
>>German dealer declining to buy the car because his Meister inspectors 
>>determined it was the original paint job, thereby making it collector value.
>>10. Continue application of stripper only up to seam lines (hood, 
>>windshield,fender/body). Envision that the body seams or under the rubber 
>>is where you'll hide the paint job seam.
>>11. Use whatever you must to scrape off the old paint (coarsest 
>>sandpaper, wire brush, wire wheel.)
>>12. Treat all rust areas with phosphoric acid and flush.
>>13. The metal now needs a good tough 2 component/reactive primer. You can 
>>either befriend a capable local for nothing and beer, ask the final 
>>finish auto paint place to take over from here, or rent a compressor and 
>>gun, and go back to the pint dealer for the primer(s) and do it yourself. 
>>You need two finishes: first is the hard over metal finish (preferably 2 
>>component/epoxy type to make a good bond) then the basic old grey 
>>primer/filler over that.
>>Keep smoothing it with paper down to 400 grit.
>>Re-prime and smooth as necessary.  Off the shelf primer cans will do.
>>Tape/seal the window, hatchback, doors.
>>Then have the paint shop wipe it down and do the top coat.
>>Top coat will not cover flaws you haven't smoothed.
>>Do your part, and you'll love it!
>>This should be a circa $500-700 outlay at this point at best quality.
>>Equivalent best quality/factory job is WAY beyond that, $ multipliers of 3-5.
>>Preparation is EVERYTHING.
>>Put your own labor of love into it.
>>It's brutal work. I've done 3 cars this way in the last 20 years and 
>>sworn off restorations. (Yeah, right, until the next baby is in line. I 
>>intend to do at least my 86 8v.)
>>OR, you can just do 1A or 1B and pray for an outcome.
>>
>>
>>
>>At 10:02 PM 11/13/03 +0000, Aaron Aunins wrote:
>>>Hi - I might as well be a new member.  I've participated off and on for 
>>>the past few years, and came to Cincy in 2001.  Anyway, I have an 87 16 
>>>red Scirocco, with a rapidly decaying paint job.  It used to look really 
>>>good, but now I get pieces of paint on the sponge when I wash it...Point 
>>>is my next project will be a new paint job, but on a graduate student 
>>>budget, and grad student time schedule...should be interesting.  I'll 
>>>probably ask a bunch of paint related questions to you guys -  hopefully 
>>>nothing thats been beaten into the ground.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Aaron
>>>87 16V
>>>
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>
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