cups v. coilovers?

[sfwilliams@comcast.net (Scott F. Williams)]

> again, i say sportier! c'mon, how much heavier do you think the 16v
> front end is?

There is over a 50lb difference in 8v and 16v engine weights. Put them on a
scale and you'll see. That difference is significant from a weight
distribution point of view. Again, that's roughly analagous to moving a
battery to the trunk or wherever.

> Do you really think that the variation b/t 8/16v cars stock is more than
the
> variation between owners, e.g. battery relocation, lightened flywheel,
euro
> bumpers, stress bars, sway bars (none in front on my car!), subframes,
cross
> member supports, a/c removal, etc?

No, I certainly don't. :^) Once again, you're changing variables that should
remain constant for a scientific (read "apples to apples" comparison). If
you were to compare an 8v and 16v car with all else the same, the 16v car
would weigh more up front by a margin more or less equal to the engine
weight.

> the original thought was that 8v/16v shocks/springs should be
> different in the AFTERMARKET, which is absurd.

If anything, the aftermarket is the exact place where the spring/damper
rates *should* be different. That is what *tuning* is all about -optimizing
the car beyond the factory's "one size fits all" set up. Case in point: I
changed the motor in my Mk1 from a 1.7l 8v to a 2.0l 16v but kept everything
else exactly the same as before. The handling went from fairly neutral to
moderate understeer. Is that a mere coinkydink? No, that's Physics 101!

> considering all the things that go into handling bias, all the mods, and
> that fact that spring rates vary between manufacturers and models, there
is
> no "right" 8v or 16v combination. so there.

Quite true, my friend. "Rightness" is an entirely subjective matter.
However, the enduring point here is that even a fractional change in weight
distribution front/rear, side/side, or even diagonally is best dealt with by
a change in roll stiffness to compensate. "So there", indeed! :^)

Cheers,

P.S. I hope somebody is getting something out of this thread. I've continued
with it to be constructive -not to be combative.
--
Scott F. Williams
NJ Scirocco nut
'99 Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS
Mazda 323 GTX turbo "assaulted" vehicle
Golf GTI 16v "rollycar"
ClubVAC: "Roads found. Drivers wanted."