[tech]: update--moving timing

[treed2@u.washington.edu (T. Reed)]

> >Michael.. aren't you the guy that spun a rod bearing (or something along
[snip]
> yup, that was me. pulled the block, bought and rebuilt a new one, put it
> in...and totalled the car 4 months later.

Sheesh... that sounds like something that would happen to me.. (actually,
it still could.. the block has only been in for 2 months! eek!!)

> it's weird though--my sprocket didn't look like there was ever a key there.
> no bits of metal, no raised edges, nothing. i think the bolt torque was what
> was keeping it from moving. since there was no key at all, the engine torque
> eventually loosened the bolt and that's when it started slipping.

Yeah, it probably sheared off cleanly some time ago. I've seen pictures
before of sprockets that look similar to yours.

> >As long as the two sides of the key slot are parallel I think you're okay.
> >Buy a new crank sprocket for $30 ($25 from potterman?) and a new bolt and
> >spacer, and a new crank pulley (or seperate the one you have), and you
> >should be fine.
>
> i'll look into it. might be easier than trying to pull an old one.

Here ya go:
http://www.parts4vws.com/catalog/product_detail.asp?PartNumber=027105263B

Looks like it's $25..

I bought one of these new/replacement SWAG units (from Chris Delong,
actually) to replace my damaged one and it worked fine.. it was identical
in every way to the stock gear (except for the manufacturer name cut in to
the flat face). I've actually been through about three of these sprockets
- I got the first of them from a junkyard for $15 - I figured a new one
would have been $110+ from the stealership...

> i was whacking the hell out of it with a hammer, and prying it full strentgh
> with a big prybar. i'll check it out closer.

Hmm.. well like I said its possible that someone did weld it. Stupider
things have happened.. (like that guy who put armor all on his tires and
then drove fast in the rain with his traction control turned off)

In that case, I'd pull a new crank pulley from a junkyard.. I'm -sure-
those are expensive when new.. it's probably cheaper to get a lightweight
aluminum underdrive pulley than a brand new one from the stealer. Who
knows..

> >was a 12 point hex bolt (but still a 17mm head) instead of a 6 point. I
> >think the torque spec changed (from 171 to 80 ft-lbs?) too. At least, my
> >1.8 had the 6 point bolt and my 2.0 came with the 12.
> anyone know about this? since the block was a bored/stroked 1.8, it has the
> 6 pt bolt (which i prefer). what's the proper torque?

Like I said I think it was 171 ft lbs (177?) or somewhere thereabouts. I
know the Bentley has the proper torque for both types of bolts.. and IIRC
the 12 point bolt has a lower torque spec for some reason. I believe
alldata has a TSB on this matter as well.. I think VW had some incidences
off the sprocket working loose and/or the key shearing off (HMM...)

All I know is I've been through this battle and lost repeatedly - I'm
never taking my sprocket off again!! (unless of course I have a situation
like yours where I don't have a choice)

> >Use the 2x4 on crank counterweight trick as Ron described or put the car
> >in gear and have someone stand on the brakes so the engine won't turn.
> i was thinking of putting a couple of bolts on the pressure plate side, and
> using a 2x4 between them as leverage. don't know if that'll be strong
> enough.

I wouldn't count on it.. it would probably just lift the motor up when you
applied any torque to the bolt. The car almost needs to be on the ground
to tighten the bolt safely (you don't want to topple it from its
jackstands). When I did it I used a 5 foot cheater bar and had one
person hold the impact socket on the sprocket, one person keeping the
engine from turning and a third person putting most of their weight on the
bar trying to produce enough torque.

> >You're a lucky bastard.
> why do people keep saying this? i bought an engine that wasn't put together
> right, and still may have done head damage. i say this sucks. but yeah, i
> could've been much worse.

Okay, so maybe "lucky" isn't the right word..

Lucki-er than you could have been, though.. from your description it
doesn't sound to me like your crank key slot is mangled. That's a hell of
a lot bigger (and more expensive) repair (to change the crank or replace
the block) than changing a sprocket (which is still a minor PITA but a
piece of cake by comparison).

Sorry to hear about it nonetheless.. but from your description you got
away (well, maybe not so much you.. but the motor) with damaging the least
expensive of the two pieces (the sprocket instead of the crank itself). I
wasn't so lucky.. if my crank didn't have that extra 1 mm of key slot, I
probably could have sold my 1.8 block for $100. It was in great shape
mechanically when I took it apart..

Oh, and when your putting the new sprocket on, make sure you get a dental
pick or something and clean all the shit out of the threads in the crank.
Obvious, I guess.. but if you don't the bolt will get stuck half way in
leading you to believe it is tight when it is really just caught on some
gunk. Then it will work its way loose again and it'll be time for a new
head.

> thanks guys. i'll let you know what happens.  and if there were other
> responses to this thread, please resend them to me--toby's pics overloaded
> my hotmail acct.

Sorry about that!

I was going to resize them but then I decided you'd probably want to see
as much detail as possible so I just went ahead and sent them full size.

> -Michael Abatzis
> Hotlanta! GA
> 1988 Scirocco 2L 16v RIP-->parting, prelim web site, but not taking orders
> yet: www.learnlink.emory.edu/~mabatzi/mikes_page1.html
> 1987 Scirocco 2L 16v...

Good luck,

-Toby