kinda OT: do you lose gas shutting the car off for less than 2 mins?

[theonlyred16v@hotmail.com (Brian Haygood)]

One more thing to add to this.  When the engine starts, there is no oil 
pressure.  The oil pressure is what turns your cam and crank bearings into 
fluid bearings instead of just metal-to-metal contacts.  This is the source 
of the saying that most of the wear on an engine occurs at startup.  I've 
been wondering how the hybrids handle this.  Does anyone know?  An electric 
oil pump would solve the problem nicely, but maybe they just don't bother in 
the name of efficiency.

As for dumping fuel on starting, the reason hybrids aren't bothered by this 
(I'm assuming and guessing here) is probably that their "starters" are huge 
electric motors that can get the engine well up into their operating range 
before letting them run on their own.  If your starter could turn your 
engine over 1000rpm you probably wouldn't need extra fuel.

BH

>From: "Dave Ewing" <rabbit16v@attbi.com>
>To: "Scirocco List" <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
>Subject: Re: kinda OT:  do you lose gas shutting the car off for less than 
>2 mins?
>Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 22:34:13 -0700
>
>Sorry Allyn, I disagree here.  Cold or hot, the fuel system will ad extra 
>fuel to start the car (in some way shape or form) so unless you are sitting 
>at a light for a few minutes (or a train, live in LA with bumper to bumper, 
>etc.) then it is not necessary or economical to turn off your car.  
>Granted, this amount of fuel will probably not show much in your end MPG 
>sum but there is a reason why freeway mileage and city mileage is 
>different!!  If you add to this shutting your car down at every stop light 
>then I think you'll see your fuel consumption increase in the city not to 
>mention unneccessary wear on (what Allyn said) starter, battery, ignition 
>switch, connections, ignition components, etc. The only reason I could see 
>where shutting down and a stoplight would help is if your idle is at 3 
>grand or something.
>
>Just idle and be happy!!
>
>Just my opinion!!
>
>Dave
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Allyn
>   To: Robbie Cotner ; scirocco-l@scirocco.org
>   Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 10:13 PM
>   Subject: Re: kinda OT: do you lose gas shutting the car off for less 
>than 2 mins?
>
>
>   any time you are sitting still you are getting 0 mileage, so it is in 
>fact better to do so with the engine off. that doesnt mean start cutting 
>'er off at every red light, because your starter/battery wouldnt last more 
>than a few months of that abuse, not to mention that there may not be 
>enough time between red lights for your alternator to properly bring the 
>battery back to its full state of change... then you'll be the one everyone 
>is honking at, heh.
>   Al
>
>   Allyn Malventano, ETC(SS), USN
>   87 Rieger GTO Scirocco 16v (daily driver, 170k, rocco #6)
>   86 Kamei Twin 16V Turbo Scirocco GTX ('it has begun', rocco #7)
>   87 Jetta 8v Wolfsburg 2dr (daily driver, 260k, 0 rattles, original 
>clutch, driveshafts, wheels :)
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: Robbie Cotner
>     To: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
>     Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 12:45 AM
>     Subject: kinda OT: do you lose gas shutting the car off for less than 
>2 mins?
>
>
>     Hey, I have been thinking about this in the back of my mind for years, 
>but I figured I'd ask you guys.  I've been told several times by people 
>that it does NOT save gas to shut off your engine while sitting still 
>(idling at stop light, etc) unless you will be sitting there for more than 
>2 mins.  That could make sense to me on some cars with hard starting 
>engines, but I've always thought that didn't make sense and that you WOULD 
>save gas, even just shutting it off for a few seconds.  Doesn't the starter 
>do the work to restart?  I don't think the computer tells the injectors to 
>dump more fuel in during start up.  I also know that the Honda Electric 
>hybrid car(can't rememer name now) automatically shuts off WHENEVER you 
>come to 0 mph, and then restarts when you hit the gas.  So I assume you 
>save gas in at least that instance.  I guess it could get complicated like 
>if the electricity your starter drains is made up by the alternator 
>charging more which would drag the engine
>
>     Rob
>
>
>
>
>
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