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Rev Limiters (was RE: Knock Sensor Q)

Subject: Rev Limiters (was RE: Knock Sensor Q)
From: bhonnold@pac-cap.com (BHonnold)
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 07:44:11 -0700
In-reply-to: <F349iZn4IVayUvnAFSs0000a362@hotmail.com>
Sorry Chris but I have tested it, in fact ran for three years with a RD
motor and cis-e from a 86GTI swapped into the MkI.  Wired up exactly like I
described and no rev limiter.  If you wure tap the knock brain to the
existing fuel pump relay ground simply to make sure every wire is connected
to something, I assure you that there is no way the knock brain can
interrupt the ground.

Once again you have singled me out as posting missinformation.  In the
future try not pointing fingers and accusing me of posting untested
theories.  If you'll notice I post rarely, always from experience and do my
best to explain what I did and why it worked for me.

Brian



-----Original Message-----
From: scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org
[mailto:scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Chris DeLong
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 10:10 PM
To: pbureau@attbi.com; BHonnold@pac-cap.com; scirocco-l@scirocco.org
Subject: RE: Rev Limiters (was RE: Knock Sensor Q)


Ok I know I have been included in this discussion and havent said a whole
lot. so here goes

The ground trigger for the fuel pump relay is what is interrupted for the
rev limiter. This ground is provided via the knock brain. 8v knock brains
have a lower rpm rev limiter than a 16v. If you connect this trigger from
the knock brain to the existing fuel pump relay you will have a rev limiter.

No offense Brian but I KNOW you havent tested your theory that you will not
have a rev limiter if you connect the ground trigger from the knock brain to
the existing fuel pump relay. I suspect you will still have a rev limiter. I
have the stock relay on my rocco wired to the 1 terminal of the coil and
AFAIK I dont have a rev limiter. Albeit, I have carbs in my roc and they
might have enough reserve fuel in them to provide fuel even if the relay is
interrupted. On the conversions that I have done using stock injection and
adding a knock brain I have always kept the fuel pump relay stock and wired
to terminal 1 on the coil. those cars dont have a rev limiter.

All that said... if you dont wire your fuel pump relay to not have a rev
limiter what is happening with the ignition advance curve? Obviously the
knock brain is setup to stop making the car go faster after a set rpm. So
does the ignition still advance after the set rpm? I doubt it. That would
require unnecessary engineering and ignition mapping.

Then the next enlightening statement would be is the ignition advance curve
going to be the same for an 8v as it is for a 16v? And if they are different
would it be advantageous to use a 16v knock brain on an 8v car? or
vise-versa?


>
>but I have a MKII 85, running cis, not converting, just hybrid 3a/jg
>engine,
>I need a knock box because of 10.5:1 compression.
>does what you just stated (keep my current relay) simply install a knock
>box
>(which ever no matter 8v or 16v) and it will never have a rev limitator?
>
>==========================================
>ATS - Patrick Bureau
>1985 8v **Planning 3A/JH  Upgrade**
>1988 16v ** FOR SALE : 1500.00$ **
>Web Site : http://longcoeur.com/scirocco
>
>
>=>-----Original Message-----
>=>From: scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org
>=>[mailto:scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Brian Honnold
>=>Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 2:18 PM
>=>To: scirocco list
>=>Subject: RE: Rev Limiters (was RE: Knock Sensor Q)
>=>
>=>
>=>Here's what I did when swapping cis-e into my MkI.
>=>
>=>Keep the stock fuel pump relay and wiretap the ground wire from
>=>the cis-e brain to the correct wire on the fuel pump relay.
>=>
>=>This give you a complete circuit with no rev limiter.
>=>
>=>Brian H
>=>
>=>-----Original Message-----
>=>From: scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org
>=>[mailto:scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Ken Bates
>=>Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 10:25 AM
>=>To: Jonas K.; Cory Langford; scirocco list
>=>Subject: Re: Rev Limiters (was RE: Knock Sensor Q)
>=>
>=>
>=>This is exactly MY problem and why I started this thread the other day.
>I
>=>am not getting a ground on the switching side of my fuel pump realy and
>=>suspect my Knock Box is not "completing" this circuit.
>=>I am about to do just exactly what Jonas is saying and jumpering
>=>a seperate
>=>ground to the FPR.
>=>I ma followingthis closely.  I appreciate all the input.
>=>Ken
>=>'79 Scirocco 16v project "McFly"
>=>'86 16v (parts car)
>=>VORTEX:  "Indiana Red"
>=>
>=>----- Original Message -----
>=>From: "Jonas K." <jkarlsso@metabolex.com>
>=>To: "Cory Langford" <cory.langford@icbc.com>; "scirocco list"
>=><scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
>=>Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:59 AM
>=>Subject: Re: Rev Limiters (was RE: Knock Sensor Q)
>=>
>=>
>=>> On 5/23/02 10:36 AM, "Cory Langford" <cory.langford@icbc.com> wrote:
>=>>
>=>> > If the Knock Box tells the Relay when to shut down the fuel pump, I
>=>> > would suspect that would be done via a voltage/no voltage
>=>situation to a
>=>> > specific pin from the box to the relay.
>=>> >
>=>> > So if that wire was cut (the connection between the relay and
>=>the knock
>=>> > box) would not the rev. limiter be removed?
>=>>
>=>> From my stydy of the system a couple of years back, (i.e. hazy
>=>memory) the
>=>> Knock box actually provides the ground that keeps the relay going. When
>=>the
>=>> rev limit is exceeded the ground is removed and fuel pump shuts off.
>=>>
>=>> Cutting the wire would render the FPR permanently off. The worst kind
>of
>=>rev
>=>> limiter there is. :-)
>=>>
>=>> You might be able to short the wire to ground permanently, for a crude
>=>> "fix", or with some creativity one could probably retrofit an
>=>earlier FPR
>=>> without too much difficulty. The rev limiter should be de-activated.
>=>>
>=>> Let me know if it works.
>=>>
>=>> Jonas
>=>>
>=>>
>=>> _______________________________________________
>=>> Scirocco-l mailing list
>=>> Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
>=>> http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
>=>>
>=>
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>
>
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Chris DeLong
ICQ#45030867
Seattle, WA USA
'80 16V 'Rocco ragtop
'91 GLi 2.0 16V
'77 Rabbit 16V
'80 'Vert (parting out!)
'61 17 Window type II
'91 Vanagon
'78 Rabbit
'84 Jetta


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- Rev Limiters (was RE: Knock Sensor Q)
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