stubborn rieger / engine problems (update #4 - fixed)

[pbureau@attbi.com (ATS - Patrick Bureau)]

humm sounds familar.. btw if you had to tap the FI block to get the
FI-piston actuated properly, most likely it is strached on the surface (ask
me how I know)and you will find that in time it will idle weirdly on certain
days (mine used to do this on humid days) and wil idle poorly at 975rpm.
I ended up changing it again... eh such is life.

G'job! AL

Patrick

=>-----Original Message-----
=>From: scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org
=>[mailto:scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Allyn
=>Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 11:59 PM
=>To: scirocco list
=>Subject: Re: stubborn rieger / engine problems (update #4 - fixed)
=>
=>
=>...so i got depserate and decided to tear into all those boxes o
=>parts i got lying around. Go
=>figure, in one of the first boxes i look in is the complete upper
=>air box portion, complete with
=>fuel filter, dpr, fuel distributor, pretty much ready to bolt up.
=>I commence to tearing into the
=>reiger, yank the old box, install the new box (took me <1 hour,
=>im a trained professional, dont try
=>this at home :), jump in and go to start it... starts, sputters
=>out, dies. Hrm, no biggie, try
=>again. This time nothing at all. Figure there is air in the
=>filter/dist/etc. Cycle key a few times,
=>notice that fuel pump goes slower and slower until its struggling
=>more than i've ever heard a cis
=>pump struggle. Try to start it, still no go. Rap on fuel pressure
=>regulator with my trysty crescent
=>wrench. Jump in, turn key (fuel pump sounds much happier this
=>time), starts up! Stumbles a bit as
=>all the air is bled through the injectors. After about a minute
=>i'm at a smooth idle with a dpr of
=>about 1 ma (and fluctuating!, woohoo!). I do some quick tweaks to
=>get dpr current to a more happy 8
=>ma and i'm off for a drive. Not only is the problem gone, but it
=>runs better than it did before!
=>This could possibly be due to my changing plugs and the coil.
=>Anyhow, sorry i kinda fixed this
=>before most had a chance to respond. I'm off to do some cleanup
=>and put all my crap away.
=>
=>Side note: i've gathered so much darn knowledge/testing
=>experience today that i'll bring the test
=>stuff i put together with me to cincy and will check out anyones
=>ke system for 'em (that includes
=>you, daun).
=>
=>Later!
=>
=>Allyn Malventano, ETC(SS), USN
=>87 Rieger GTO Scirocco 16v (daily driver, 170k, rocco #6) - back
=>to runnin like bat-outta-hell
=>86 Kamei Twin 16V Turbo Scirocco GTX ('it has begun', rocco #7)
=>87 Jetta 8v Wolfsburg 2dr (daily driver, 260k, 0 rattles,
=>original clutch, driveshafts, wheels :)
=>
=>----- Original Message -----
=>From: "Allyn" <amalventano1@comcast.net>
=>To: "scirocco list" <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
=>Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 8:26 PM
=>Subject: Re: stubborn rieger / engine problems (update #3 - dpr wanted)
=>
=>
=>> Disregard the oxs being bad. i had the meter on wrong.
=>connected correctly i get .1v when first
=>> started, steady rise up to ~.8v when the oxs is warm (after ~ 1 minute).
=>>
=>> OK, here we go. Ran the meter around and into the car so i
=>could get a reading of dpr current with
=>> the car on the road. After starting i get 10 ma which settles
=>down to 0 ma after a minute (just
=>like
=>> before). Under full throttle acceleration i get ~+15 ma. While
=>coasting down in 3rd from about 4k
=>> rpm i get the -53 ma that im supposed to get (coast down fuel
=>cut), but whats weird is that i dont
=>> get the increased decelleration from the engine. Its as if the
=>dpr is getting the current to cut
=>> fuel, but it isnt doing so. I also have a feeling that its
=>running rich (getting puffs o fuel if i
=>> rev it when its hot).
=>> This kind of jives with the dpr going to 0 ma when it idles in
=>closed loop. 0 ma means the cis-e
=>box
=>> is trying to reduce fuel flow as much as possible (but the dpr
=>isnt actually doing what its
=>supposed
=>> to, especially if its just wide open).
=>>
=>> *note* the fuel distributor on this car is about 1 year old
=>(but the dpr may have been taken from
=>> the old one and put on the new one when it was swapped).
=>>
=>> Now, who has a 16v dpr lying around?
=>> Al
=>>
=>> Allyn Malventano, ETC(SS), USN
=>> 87 Rieger GTO Scirocco 16v (daily driver, 170k, rocco #6)
=>> 86 Kamei Twin 16V Turbo Scirocco GTX ('it has begun', rocco #7)
=>> 87 Jetta 8v Wolfsburg 2dr (daily driver, 260k, 0 rattles,
=>original clutch, driveshafts, wheels :)
=>>
=>>
=>> ----- Original Message -----
=>> From: "Allyn" <amalventano1@comcast.net>
=>> To: "scirocco list" <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
=>> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 6:47 PM
=>> Subject: Re: stubborn rieger / engine problems (update #2)
=>>
=>>
=>> > did some more testing:
=>> > (following tests done at the cis-e box connector)
=>> > - throttle body wot and closed switches: good (~1 ohm closed)
=>> > - coolant temp sensor: good (abt 1.4k when cold, was abt 200
=>ohms when hot)
=>> > - air flow plate potentiometer: found intermittent contact
=>along its range, particularly in the
=>2k
=>> > ohm range (full range is 1k to 5k). Disassembled and cleaned
=>potentiometer. Reassembled and
=>> > retested, good movement through range. Went for drive:
=>problems still exist.
=>> > - dpr current: with engine warm and ignition on i get 10 ma
=>(expected). shorting the o2 sensor
=>> > 'green wire' (heater) to ground results in a steady rise to
=>20 ma over a 20 sec period
=>(expected).
=>> > start engine, check meter, steady at 10 ma (expected for post
=>start). Over 1 minute period dpr
=>> > current drops stradily to 0.0 ma and stays there (it should
=>begin fluctuating in closed loop,
=>not
=>> go
=>> > to 0 and stay there, this is a problem). Rev engine and snap
=>throttle closed: current snaps
=>to -50
=>> > ma and back to 0 when returns to idle (expected, but should
=>be returning to fluctuating current,
=>> not
=>> > 0).
=>> > - check o2 sensor resistance: 6 ohms. o2 sensor voltage: 0
=>volts with engine running (what
=>should
=>> i
=>> > see here on a good o2 sensor?).
=>> >
=>> > ** what equivalent o2 sensor can i get that will replace a 3
=>wire on our cars? i heard something
=>> > about a mustang one or something a while back... ***
=>> >
=>> > Thanks in advance,
=>> > Al
=>> >
=>> > Allyn Malventano, ETC(SS), USN
=>> > 87 Rieger GTO Scirocco 16v (daily driver, 170k, rocco #6)
=>> > 86 Kamei Twin 16V Turbo Scirocco GTX ('it has begun', rocco #7)
=>> > 87 Jetta 8v Wolfsburg 2dr (daily driver, 260k, 0 rattles,
=>original clutch, driveshafts, wheels
=>:)
=>> >
=>> >
=>> > ----- Original Message -----
=>> > From: "Allyn" <amalventano1@comcast.net>
=>> > To: "scirocco list" <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
=>> > Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 4:20 PM
=>> > Subject: stubborn rieger / engine problems
=>> >
=>> >
=>> > > My string of good luck has ended.
=>> > > Problem: (noticed increased random missing when hot at idle
=>over past few weeks). Car ran
=>fine,
=>> > then
=>> > > sputtered under acceleration (as if one cylinder wasnt
=>firing). During this minute it only
=>> missed
=>> > > under load (revs freely when not loaded, no misses). After
=>~1 minute the sputtering went away
=>> but
=>> > > there was a noticable (not major) loss of power under load.
=>The loss of power doesnt seem to
=>be
=>> > from
=>> > > any one cylinder. Car is still drivable. Revs freely as it
=>ever did with no misses. The next
=>> time
=>> > i
=>> > > drove it, i had the same power loss, but noticed a
=>sputtering that occurs only when coming off
=>> the
=>> > > throttle (under load). No sputtering occurs under
=>acceleration, only the slight power loss.
=>> Engine
=>> > > coasts down cleanly when off of pedal (no sputtering). The
=>sputter only occurs under partial
=>> > > throttle and especially when coming off of full throttle.
=>Still no stuttering while free
=>reving.
=>> > >
=>> > > What was done so far:
=>> > > Change plugs: no effect (old plugs were clean, all 4 looked
=>identical, no sign of plugs being
=>> > > cause).
=>> > > Remove/inspect plug wires: (neuspeed wires), all wires had
=>consistent resistance, even with
=>> wires
=>> > > wet.
=>> > > Swapped coil with another one: no effect, same exact symptoms.
=>> > > Checked ignition timing: Dead on, no adjustment necessary.
=>> > > Checked cam timing: dead on.
=>> > > *at this point i let the engine idle up to temperature and
=>noted no missing at all, i can only
=>> > > assume the missing problem was corrected and is not related
=>to the sputtering problem*
=>> > >
=>> > > Please let me know any opinions/thoughts. My hunch is
=>possibly something fuel related or
=>perhaps
=>> > > something funky with the coil driver.
=>> > >
=>> > > Allyn Malventano, ETC(SS), USN
=>> > > 87 Rieger GTO Scirocco 16v (daily driver, 170k, rocco #6)
=>> > > 86 Kamei Twin 16V Turbo Scirocco GTX ('it has begun', rocco #7)
=>> > > 87 Jetta 8v Wolfsburg 2dr (daily driver, 260k, 0 rattles,
=>original clutch, driveshafts, wheels
=>> :)
=>> > >
=>> > >
=>> > > _______________________________________________
=>> > > Scirocco-l mailing list
=>> > > Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
=>> > > http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
=>> >
=>> >
=>> > _______________________________________________
=>> > Scirocco-l mailing list
=>> > Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
=>> > http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
=>>
=>>
=>> _______________________________________________
=>> Scirocco-l mailing list
=>> Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
=>> http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
=>
=>
=>_______________________________________________
=>Scirocco-l mailing list
=>Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
=>http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l