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Re: 10.1 brake question--The Truth! (long)

To: rabbit16v@prodigy.net, scirocco-l@scirocco.org
Subject: Re: 10.1 brake question--The Truth! (long)
From: "Chris DeLong" <green536@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 00:06:01 +0000
Sender: owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org
Because you have 2 used master cylinders that you have no history on from 
when they were brand new.

Incidentally I did some more investigation and found that Jetta GLi 16v from 
'89 and up have a 22mm master. GTi 16v's from '90 and up have 22mm master 
cylinders. All 8v GTi and GLi models have 20.64mm. Hope this makes it 
crystal clear for you and helps clear up any confusion out there.

Chris DeLong
ICQ#45030867
Seattle, WA USA
'80 16V 'Rocco ragtop
'91 GLi 2.0 16V
'77 Rabbit 16V
'80 'Vert (parting out!)
'61 17 Window type II
'91 Vanagon
'78 Rabbit
'78 Rabbit (for sale)
'87 GTi 16V



>From: "Dave Ewing" <rabbit16v@prodigy.net>
>To: "Scirocco List" <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
>Subject: Re: 10.1 brake question--The Truth! (long)
>Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 14:48:45 -0700
>
>Then why is the Scirocco 16v master that I have and the 16v GTI master that
>I have the same?
>
>Dave
>
> > In reference to the statement that the master cylinder on an A2 is 
>larger
> > than anything is incorrect (hows that for a run-on sentence). The bore
> > diameter is the same (20.64mm) as a '79 Scirocco and even a '88 16V 
>Jetta.
> >
> > Just had to clarify that one.
> >
> >
> > Chris DeLong
> > ICQ#45030867
> > Seattle, WA USA
> > '80 16V 'Rocco ragtop
> > '91 GLi 2.0 16V
> > '77 Rabbit 16V
> > '80 'Vert (parting out!)
> > '61 17 Window type II
> > '91 Vanagon
> > '78 Rabbit
> > '78 Rabbit (for sale)
> > '87 GTi 16V
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: Mash <type53@yahoo.com>
> > >To: Dave Ewing <rabbit16v@prodigy.net>,  Scirocco List
> > ><scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> > >Subject: Re: 10.1 brake question--The Truth! (long)
> > >Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 17:35:54 -0700 (PDT)
> > >
> > >--- Dave Ewing <rabbit16v@prodigy.net> wrote:
> > > > I upgraded my rear discs and 10.1" brakes before
> > > > doing the master cylinder
> > > > and didn't have any problems.
> > >
> > >What year and model car?
> > >
> > >   I did upgrade to the
> > > > bigger master soon after
> > > > that and the pedal did seem better but not
> > > > dramatically.
> > > >
> > > > I also disagree with the proportioning valve ideas
> > > > on the list.  The
> > > > proportioning valve restricts the amount of
> > > > fluid/pressure going to the rear
> > > > so as not to create an out of control rear lock up
> > > > situation.  On earlier
> > > > cars (and some later) they have a level sensing
> > > > proportioning valve
> > >
> > >Some have none - 1975-1980 Sciroccos . . .
> > >
> > >Are you sure that these are level sensing? My Bentley
> > >specifically says "This proportioning valve is not
> > >load-sensitive and cannot be adjusted" (ignoring any
> > >Rabbit or Pickup applications).
> > >
> > >  which
> > > > will limit the amount of pressure/fluid going to the
> > > > rear brakes based on
> > > > the load in the car/truck.  I have seen the small
> > > > cylidrical looking
> > > > proportioning valves on everything from Rabbit
> > > > pickup 85 and newer golfs, 85
> > > > and newer sciroccos, foxes, etc with no rear discs
> > > > so there are different
> > > > proportioning valves.
> > >
> > >yup . . .
> > >
> > >   IF you are doing the upgrade
> > > > on a Rabbit, use the
> > > > Golf valves, if you are doing it on a scirocco, use
> > > > the 16v valves.
> > >
> > >Why the difference? Same chassis, same weight
> > >(roughly) . . .
> > >
> > >Dem 16V prop valves are rare and pricey and presumably
> > >take into account those 10.1" front discs . . . If you
> > >are doing the 10.1 front + rear discs then of course
> > >the Scirocco 16V props are the only way to go (my
> > >opinion)
> > >
> > > > Different valves on different cars have to be
> > > > calibrated for different
> > > > weights
> > >
> > >yup.
> > >
> > ><snip discussion on pickups>
> > >
> > > > Another thing I don't agree with is that you DON'T
> > > > have to have the 16v
> > > > pedal assy for this swap.
> > >
> > >Are they different than the 1985 & up Scirocco pedals?
> > >
> > >   The 22mm master doesn't
> > > > have an extra spot for
> > > > the pressure switch usually used on older VWs for a
> > > > brake light switch.
> > >
> > >Does not this also apply to the 1985 & up Scirocco?
> > >
> > > > Instead, it is an electrical switch on the pedal
> > > > assy.
> > >
> > >Yup.
> > >
> > > > Be careful when upgrading to rear discs that there
> > > > are two different kinds
> > > > of calipers.  There are A2 calipers that have the
> > > > parking brake cable
> > > > mounted at the bottom of the caliper and the
> > > > Scirocco 16v calipers have them
> > > > mounted on the top.  The best way to tell is note
> > > > where the bleeder screw
> > > > is.  Obviously the Scirocco 16v calipers are the
> > > > nicer ones to upgrade to
> > > > since the cables fit perfectly on all A1 cars
> > > > (except pickup which is a
> > > > breed of it's own) so you don't have to hunt or have
> > > > some made.  IF the
> > > > bleeder is NOT ON TOP, THEY WON'T BLEED OUT!!!
> > > > Don't ask why I know about
> > > > this one!
> > >
> > >Problem with the design used on the Scirocco 16V and
> > >early A2 cars is that the e-brake fails.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > When upgrading to the bigger master you WILL need
> > > > the bigger booster.
> > >
> > >If you don't already have it (1985 & up) :-)
> > >
> > >   The
> > > > "BIGGER" part that everyone is talking about is the
> > > > bore, this means more
> > > > fluid, more pressure so you couldn't use the smaller
> > > > bore booster that your
> > > > smaller bore master just came out of.
> > >
> > >   Don't be fooled either,
> > > > I believe that all A2s
> > > > have the bigger master and booster so don't pay a
> > > > butt load of money for
> > > > this from someone else when they are a dime a dozen
> > > > in the Pick A Part
> > > > yards.
> > >
> > >True.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Mostly just use your common sense.  Realize that if
> > > > there are prop. valves
> > > > on 2000lb cars and 3500lb cars that they must be
> > > > different!!  They aren't
> > > > all the same.  Second, when getting "Suggestions"
> > > > from someone, even on the
> > > > list, question the source for reliability.
> > >
> > >Absolutely!
> > >
> > >   I think
> > > > we should voice our
> > > > proof when answering a question like this too.  I
> > > > would trust someone that
> > > > works at a dealership on VWs or a German auto shop
> > > > more than I would trust
> > > > someone who dabbles in their back yard
> > > > (certifications help too) although I
> > > > have known the backyard mechanic to be right before
> > > > the Dealership mechanic
> > > > also.
> > >
> > >Seen that too!
> > >
> > >   And last but defineately not least, Bentley,
> > > > Bentley,
> > >
> > >I love Bentleys but they don't help here :-)
> > >
> > >=== message truncated ===
> > >
> > >I guess that really was long!
> > >
> > >
> > >=====
> > >Mark Peele
> > >1985 Scirocco, 1982 Scirocco, 1981 Scirocco, 1978 Scirocco, 1987 Golf 
>GT
> > >http://www.scirocco2.de/mark.htm
> > >Direct Mail: SCIROCCO_GTX@YAHOO.COM
> > >Need parts? try http://www.parts4vws.com/ (Potterman)
> > >or http://www.germanautoparts.com/ (Adirondack)
> > >or http://thescirocco.com
> > >
> > >__________________________________________________
> > >Do You Yahoo!?
> > >Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> > >http://personals.yahoo.com
> > >
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> > >
> >
> >
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