Re: suspension pros & cons

["Brian Haygood" <Scirious@hotmail.com>]

I'll pretty much just chip in with others here, but I'd like to try and take
a little bit of the opinion out of it, and sub-in some enginerd speak.

What makes for bad handling with a car that has been lowered too much:
-can't get the alignment in spec because the adjustments weren't meant to
account for that drastic a change
-shock/strut bottoms out.  The range of shock travel doesn't change much
with almost any normal suspension modification.  As Scott mentioned, big
bucks can overcome that, but its hardly practical.  Let's face is Scirocco
fans, big bucks can buy you a Porsche, too.:)
If the shock reaches the lower limit of its travel you get a really hard
jolt.  That jolt overloads the tire in question, and usually takes load off
of the remaining tires in the process.  That instant of overload means lost
traction.  The rebound from the jolt can, in some cases remove all of the
weight from that wheel, and the same lost traction results.  Best traction
means even loading of all the rubber, and getting as much rubber as possible
(dry weather) on the road.  Anything that leads to less than a smooth ride
decreases "handling" of bumps and imperfections in the road.  Stiff springs
are a necesary evil for cars, and certainly makes them feel better and
transmits "feel" to the driver and instructions from the driver more
quickly, but when it comes right down to it, the springs should only be as
stiff as they need be to keep the car from bottoming out.  Lower the car 2"
and it may be nearly impossible to keep the car "suspended" -even with super
stiff springs.  Those stiff springs may feel fine to you, but they decrease
the ability of the car to keep its weight evenly distributed as it travels
over bumps and dips.

So if all you do is race on smooth tracks and drive on really great quality
roads, you can probably get away with stiffer springs than those of us who
drive in the real world.

Lowering the Center of Gravity is the point of most attempts to lower a car
for performance.  This helps reduce load transfer during turns, acceleration
and braking, but if you can't keep your tires on the ground, even the
theoretical gains of lower CG don't work.

So what am I saying:  It depends on where you drive, or rather what you
drive over as to how low you can lower.  It isn't really something that
preference can dictate (preference almost never relates to performance, and
anyone who tells you that a setup works "for them" though it doesn't for
another is at best relating the poor driving skills of himself or someone
else)  -so much for reducing the opinion content, huh! -at least note that I
don't claim to be on the upper end of the good driving scale - I pretty much
suck in fact.

Onward:

Coilovers -  Coilovers are meant for people who need to adapt their
suspension to berying conditions.  When a car with tons of downforce races
at a track with long fast straights, he/she will have to raise the car so
that the hundreds of pounds of downforce don't make him drag the nose.  Put
the same car in the Houston Grand Prix (nary a straight on the course), and
his lower top speed will let him drop the car a bit.  Also allows tuning for
various loads in the real world, and a variety of other changes.  As someone
pointed out - if you are switching it from track to street and back a lot,
then coilovers might make sense.  If you don't have a full set of scales and
a means to adjust the alignment, then you won't be able to make the best use
of the adjustability anyway.  Also, adjusting them takes a good bit of time,
which you may or may not invest that often.

Most of the other reasons for them involve looks and aesthetics - and if
that's what you want, hey, do your thing and make the car yours.

I run Bilsteins with H&R springs and find the ride to be suitable for most
things.  There are some roads I have to avoid in Pittsburgh, but no other
place I have lived has roads I would have to avoid with this setup to keep
the car from bottoming out.

So there you have my thoughts - fact, opinions and all.  Do what works for
you and make it your car.

-Brian
----- Original Message -----
From: Colin <cwass99@home.com>
To: adam lefevre <adaml701@yahoo.com>
Cc: Scirocco List <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 1:40 PM
Subject: RE: suspension pros & cons


>      Having just done the suspension on my 'Rocco, I found the biggest
> difference is price.  Coilovers cost about 1.5 times as much and may or
may not
> represent a substantial improvement over standard coils and springs
depending
> on details.  I put on Neuspeed Sport (dropped it about 1 1/2 inches) and
KYB
> GR2 struts.  I also replaced the upper strut bearings, ball-joints,
tie-rod
> ends, control arm bushings, etc.  All 4 corners completely done for under
$1000
> (CDN).  Just the coil-overs (decent ones) would have run me around $1400.
>      Coilovers are effectively struts and springs with a moveable lower
spring
> seat (although I'm sure someone will correct me if that's too simplistic).
If
> your car spends time both on street and track, coilovers are probably not
a bad
> choice.  If you just want to drop the thing a couple inches, get the best
> springs and struts you can afford that give you the drop you want.  It
will
> still be substantially cheaper than good coilovers and the performance
will be
> fine.
>      Don't buy the super cheap special coilovers.  If you need coilovers,
you
> need to spend the money to get good ones.  If you don't frequently need to
> change the characteristics of the set-up (height, corner balance, etc) you
> don't need coilovers.
>      Hope that helps.
>
> Cheers,
> Colin
>
>
>
> On 24-Nov-01 adam lefevre wrote:
> > I'm going to buy a new suspension soon and I don't know what to get. I
> > looked in the archives and I'm still not certain which is
better...coilovers
> > or struts & springs?
> >
> > The scirocco in question (1986 8v) will *not* be driven in winter. I'm
> > looking for a 2" lowering job and best handling.
> >
> > Which is easier to install? Which offers best performance and handling?
Pros
> > and cons of each system type would be appreciated. Personal experiences
are
> > good too.
> >
> > adam
> > 86 8v
> >
> >
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