[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
Re: Twin 16v Motor pics and site

To: <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
Subject: Re: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
From: "Rick Alexander" <rick@brubakerbox.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 08:14:58 -0500
References: <27ECEE1382F61445B6F1AFAD1C2254AF814C48@com.chem-tronics.com>
Sender: owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org
Ok, I get it. Then it would be a simple matter of changing the mechanical
advantage of the pedal to account for the second slave.

Rick Alexander
http://www.brubakerbox.com
http://clubs.hemmings.com/hams/
http://clubs.hemmings.com/vwsrus/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fry, Larry" <LEF@chem-tronics.com>
To: "Rick Alexander" <rick@brubakerbox.com>; "scirocco list"
<scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 4:05 PM
Subject: RE: Twin 16v Motor pics and site


> Rick-
>   If you double the MC area, the travel for the two slave cylinders would
> indeed stay the same as a normal system.  However, the force required to
> move that MC (this force coming from your leg) would double.
> There's no free lunch.  The law of mechanical advantage indicates that if
> you double the work (twice as many slaves moving the same distance against
> the same clutch pressures) you'll double the energy required to do it.
>
> Larry  sandiego16V
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Alexander [mailto:rick@brubakerbox.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 12:50 PM
> To: scirocco list
> Subject: Re: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
>
>
> No expert here but...
>
> If the area of the master were doubled for twice as many slaves, it seems
to
> me that the pressure required would be the same as would the travel
> distance. What do the hydraulic experts say? Is my understanding wrong?
>
> Rick Alexander
> http://www.brubakerbox.com
> http://clubs.hemmings.com/hams/
> http://clubs.hemmings.com/vwsrus/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Allyn" <amalventano1@home.com>
> To: "Brian Wagner" <scirocco_88_16v@hotmail.com>; "scirocco list"
> <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 2:17 PM
> Subject: Re: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
>
>
> > Brian,
> >     The master clinder works on a slightly different principal. It deals
> > with an increase in pressure moreso than actually moving the caliper
> > pistons. In this case, the calipers are moving only about 1/16th of an
> inch.
> > The design is only meant to raise pressure on the caliper pistons, and
> > therefore force on the brake pads. There would be exactly the same
> pressure
> > on both pistons of the front/rear diagonal pair. If one caliper was
> jammed,
> > it wouldnt move, but would still have the same pressure (fluid) applied
to
> > it, where the non-jammed caliper of the pair would be the only one doing
> the
> > braking.
> >     This same situation compared to a clutch setup, where one pressure
> plate
> > may have slightly stronger springs compared with the other, more fluid
> would
> > flow to the slave on the 'easier' tranny, causing it to disengage before
> the
> > other.
> >     Also as you mentioned about the bore: yes, you would need 2x area of
> > bore surface in the master to get full travel on both clutches, yet this
> > creates another problem: you are now effectively hitting 2 clutches at
> once,
> > therefore the force you need to push clutch the pedal to the floor is
now
> 2x
> > (that would suck in traffic, heh).
> > Al
> >
> > Allyn Malventano, ETC(SS), USN
> > 87 Rieger GTO Scirocco 16v (daily driver, 170k, rocco #6) running - for
> now
> > 87 Jetta 8v Wolfsburg 2dr (daily driver, 260k, 0 rattles, original
clutch,
> > driveshafts, wheels :)
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Brian Wagner" <scirocco_88_16v@hotmail.com>
> > To: <amalventano1@home.com>
> > Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 1:07 PM
> > Subject: Re: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
> >
> >
> > > I thought about it some more and in the example you sited each car
would
> > > need a 4 piston master cylinder for the brakes. The same princple
would
> > > apply for this, I believe the stroke and bore are the key. ( I know I
> > added
> > > bore now)
> > >
> > > Brian
> > >
> > > 87 16v
> > > 86 8v (parts car)
> > > 85 Wolfsburg (white coming to a garage near me soon)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Allyn" <amalventano1@home.com>
> > > >To: "Brian Wagner" <scirocco_88_16v@hotmail.com>
> > > >Subject: Re: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
> > > >Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 12:47:03 -0500
> > > >
> > > >the single piston on the master only moves x volume. this matches x
> > volume
> > > >in a single slave and moves the clutch lever. add another slave and
you
> > now
> > > >have 2x volume to fill. Is there some other way that they work that i
> am
> > > >missing perhaps?
> > > >Al
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "Brian Wagner" <scirocco_88_16v@hotmail.com>
> > > >To: <amalventano1@home.com>
> > > >Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 12:42 PM
> > > >Subject: Re: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > why would each move 1/2 distance, the volumetric pressure being
> equal
> > in
> > > >the
> > > > > system and all?
> > > > >
> > > > > Brian
> > > > >
> > > > > 87 16v
> > > > > 86 8v (parts car)
> > > > > 85 Wolfsburg (white coming to a garage near me soon)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "Allyn" <amalventano1@home.com>
> > > > > >To: "Brian Wagner" <scirocco_88_16v@hotmail.com>,
> > > ><koabi@lazyslacker.com>,
> > > > > ><scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> > > > > >Subject: Re: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
> > > > > >Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 12:38:51 -0500
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Yes, but each clutch would move 1/2 the length. Also, if one had
> more
> > > > > >resistance than the other, only the one with less resistance
would
> > > >move.
> > > >We
> > > > > >would need some kind of dual poston master.
> > > > > >Al
> > > > > >
> > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >From: "Brian Wagner" <scirocco_88_16v@hotmail.com>
> > > > > >To: <koabi@lazyslacker.com>; <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> > > > > >Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 12:33 PM
> > > > > >Subject: RE: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > A single hydraulic clutch master could be used inconjunction
> with
> > 2
> > > > > >slaves,
> > > > > > > this would ensure equal clutch engagement to both t/m.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Brian
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 87 16v
> > > > > > > 86 8v (parts car)
> > > > > > > 85 Wolfsburg (white coming to a garage near me soon)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >From: "koabi brooks" <koabi@lazyslacker.com>
> > > > > > > >To: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > > > > > > >Subject: RE: Twin 16v Motor pics  and site
> > > > > > > >Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 12:26:18 -0500
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >im skeptical about the power.  two engines 275 HP per = 2*275
> HP
> > > > > > > >total?  that seems wrong to me.  Anyone care to explain?  I
> > assumed
> > > > > > > >this bad boy has two trannys with some super huge linkage.
> > Someone
> > > > > > > >mentioned something about a hydrolic clutch, which leads me
to
> > > >believe
> > > > > > > >there would only be ONE tranny, but that makes no sense to
me.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >englighten me please :)
> > > > > > > >koabi
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > >From: owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > > > > > > >[mailto:owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Dave Ewing
> > > > > > > >Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 9:08 AM
> > > > > > > >To: Scirocco List
> > > > > > > >Subject: Re: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >The site did say that each motor was running at 275hp (2.0 or
> > 2.1L
> > > >16v
> > > > > > > >on a serious shot of nitrous).  That would make it 550hp
total.
> > > >Sounds
> > > > > > > >like it could be done!?  I'd love to take a ride in it!!!  I
> > wonder
> > > > > > > >what top speed would be?  I am sure it would only be
restricted
> > by
> > > > > > > >gearing!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Dave
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >--
> > > > > > > >Email LIST problems to: scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org.
> > > > > > > >To unsubscibe send "unsubscribe scirocco-l" in the message to
> > > > > > > >majordomo@scirocco.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > > > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Email LIST problems to: scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org.
> > > > > > > To unsubscibe send "unsubscribe scirocco-l" in the message to
> > > > > >majordomo@scirocco.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Email LIST problems to: scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org.
> > To unsubscibe send "unsubscribe scirocco-l" in the message to
> majordomo@scirocco.org
> >
>
>
> --
> Email LIST problems to: scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org.
> To unsubscibe send "unsubscribe scirocco-l" in the message to
> majordomo@scirocco.org
>
>
> [Disclaimer]This e-mail is strictly confidential and intended solely for
the
> addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal,
> professional, or other privilege. If you are not the intended addressee
you
> must not use, disclose, or copy this transmission. This E-mail is not
> intended to impose nor shall it be construed as imposing any legally
binding
> obligation upon GKN Aerospace Chem-tronics Inc. and/or any of its
> subsidiaries or associated companies. Neither GKN Aerospace Chem-tronics
> Inc. nor any of its subsidiaries or associated companies gives any
> representation or warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of the
> contents of this E-mail. GKN Aerospace Chem-tronics Inc. shall not be held
> liable to any person resulting from the use of any information contained
in
> this E-mail and shall not be liable to any person who acts or omits to do
> anything in reliance upon it.
>



--
Email LIST problems to: scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org.
To unsubscibe send "unsubscribe scirocco-l" in the message to majordomo@scirocco.org
References:
- RE: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
  - From: "Fry, Larry" <LEF@chem-tronics.com>
Prev by Date: RE: bloody old bits breaking...
Next by Date: Re: bloody old bits breaking...
Prev by thread: RE: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
Next by thread: RE: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
Index(es):
- Date
- Thread