Re: Twin 16v Motor pics and site

["Allyn" <amalventano1@home.com>]

Dave/Brian/List/Ron (you dig my shpeals),
    About the clutch thing: Brake caliper pistons move very little, and thus
the brakes rely more on a pressure build up than lots of oil flowing. Clutch
is the opposite, not much pressure is needed, but there must be a specific
volume of flow into each slave cylinder to fully disengage the clutch.
Putting 2 slaves on a single master will result in only half travel at the
tranny for full travel at the pedal. Some other people on list have had a
hard time grasping this, so i'll use a simpler analogy.
    OK, you have a bicycle with 2 flat tires (2 trannies with clutches
engaged). You want to pump both tires up (disengage both clutches). This
will lift both ends of the bike slightly (like moving the clutch levers on
the trannies). You try to do this with just the front wheel, and find that
it takes 15 pumps with your foot (ok, its a foot pump, heh), to fill the
tire to desired pressure, lifting the bike enough. Now the next week you
find both tires flat again (go figure). This time you get smart and put a
nifty 't' connection so you can pump both tires at once. Now you count off
you're 15 pumps, disconnect your pump, hop on and... well, the tires are
still too flat to ride. The tires are only half full.
    Brakes dont work this way. Although the systems are similar, one works
on high pressure/little volume (where you can hook up more than one slave
with little problems, since pressure is distributed evenly over all slaves.
the worst that will happen is your brake pedal may go down just a tiny bit
more to support motion of the added slaves piston. this is okay, since your
brake system was designed to supply high pressure to a static head. your
brake pedal doesnt hit the floor to fully engage your brakes, but your
clutch hits the floor to fully disengage your clutch), since the clutch
works on low pressure/high volume, tapping slaves on will cut volumes in
half, thus half motion.
    Also, pedal feel will be identical with this 'dual/half' motion. To get
full motion would require a master piston at double the surface area, and
thus would require 2x normal pedal force, since you would then be doing 2x
normal work (that whole law of conservation, gets you every time).

I hope this clears things up a bit.
Al


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Ewing" <rabbit16v@prodigy.net>
To: "Scirocco List" <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: Twin 16v Motor pics and site


> one tranny couldn't work with two motors without some really wierd
rigging.
> There are two trannies, and I suspect they are 02A trannies since they are
> hydraulic.  The linkage would be ran by cable which seems like it would be
> pretty straight forward (from a fabricators point of view) to set up since
> you could just run the two cables together into sme type of aftermarket
> shifter setup.  Second, I was watching ESPN where they were showing this
> Chevy 2 with a 600 shot of nitrous!!  I am sure with the right setup, you
> could get 275 out of a 2.0 or 2.1L 16v motor (at the crank).  Besides, did
> you see the size of the bottles?  Gobs of nitrous!!
>
> As for the others posting about the hydraulic (proper spelling btw)
clutch,
> the distance of travel won't matter compared to pressure.  Just as an
> example, look at the old beetle brake systems or even early w/c VWs where
> they only had one line coming off of the master for both the rear brakes!
> It didn't change the volume needed becaue the pressure was there.  If the
> system is full of fluid and has no air then the pedal travel shouldn't be
> affected.  I do believe, though, that a clutch master with two out ports
> would be ideal for this application.  Anyone else on this subject?  Does
my
> common sense approach make sense here?
>
> Dave
>
> > im skeptical about the power.  two engines 275 HP per = 2*275 HP
> > total?  that seems wrong to me.  Anyone care to explain?  I assumed
> > this bad boy has two trannys with some super huge linkage.  Someone
> > mentioned something about a hydrolic clutch, which leads me to believe
> > there would only be ONE tranny, but that makes no sense to me.
> >
> > englighten me please :)
> > koabi
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > [mailto:owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Dave Ewing
> > Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 9:08 AM
> > To: Scirocco List
> > Subject: Re: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
> >
> >
> > The site did say that each motor was running at 275hp (2.0 or 2.1L 16v
> > on a serious shot of nitrous).  That would make it 550hp total.  Sounds
> > like it could be done!?  I'd love to take a ride in it!!!  I wonder
> > what top speed would be?  I am sure it would only be restricted by
> > gearing!
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > --
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>
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