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RE: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
AL-
Your thinking on the hydraulic (everyone else note spelling, please)
actuation is good up to a point.
Since both slave cylinders (on the clutches)are acting against springs, the
system would be self-balancing.
Imagine one clutch's spring being slightly weaker than the other. Under
hydraulic pressure, that weaker spring would react sooner, compressing until
the spring pressure built up to the point where the load equaled the
stronger, uncompressed spring. At that point, the stronger one would start
to move in concert with the weaker since both have compressed to the point
that their "loads" equal each other. This means that one clutch will almost
certainly react slightly quicker than the other in this system, but the
difference should be so small that one could disregard it.
I may not have done an adequate job of describing the phenominon, but hope
it gets you thinking along the same track.
Larry sandiego16V
-----Original Message-----
From: Allyn [mailto:amalventano1@home.com]
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 11:17 AM
To: Brian Wagner; scirocco list
Subject: Re: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
Brian,
The master clinder works on a slightly different principal. It deals
with an increase in pressure moreso than actually moving the caliper
pistons. In this case, the calipers are moving only about 1/16th of an inch.
The design is only meant to raise pressure on the caliper pistons, and
therefore force on the brake pads. There would be exactly the same pressure
on both pistons of the front/rear diagonal pair. If one caliper was jammed,
it wouldnt move, but would still have the same pressure (fluid) applied to
it, where the non-jammed caliper of the pair would be the only one doing the
braking.
This same situation compared to a clutch setup, where one pressure plate
may have slightly stronger springs compared with the other, more fluid would
flow to the slave on the 'easier' tranny, causing it to disengage before the
other.
Also as you mentioned about the bore: yes, you would need 2x area of
bore surface in the master to get full travel on both clutches, yet this
creates another problem: you are now effectively hitting 2 clutches at once,
therefore the force you need to push clutch the pedal to the floor is now 2x
(that would suck in traffic, heh).
Al
Allyn Malventano, ETC(SS), USN
87 Rieger GTO Scirocco 16v (daily driver, 170k, rocco #6) running - for now
87 Jetta 8v Wolfsburg 2dr (daily driver, 260k, 0 rattles, original clutch,
driveshafts, wheels :)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Wagner" <scirocco_88_16v@hotmail.com>
To: <amalventano1@home.com>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
> I thought about it some more and in the example you sited each car would
> need a 4 piston master cylinder for the brakes. The same princple would
> apply for this, I believe the stroke and bore are the key. ( I know I
added
> bore now)
>
> Brian
>
> 87 16v
> 86 8v (parts car)
> 85 Wolfsburg (white coming to a garage near me soon)
>
>
>
> >From: "Allyn" <amalventano1@home.com>
> >To: "Brian Wagner" <scirocco_88_16v@hotmail.com>
> >Subject: Re: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
> >Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 12:47:03 -0500
> >
> >the single piston on the master only moves x volume. this matches x
volume
> >in a single slave and moves the clutch lever. add another slave and you
now
> >have 2x volume to fill. Is there some other way that they work that i am
> >missing perhaps?
> >Al
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Brian Wagner" <scirocco_88_16v@hotmail.com>
> >To: <amalventano1@home.com>
> >Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 12:42 PM
> >Subject: Re: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
> >
> >
> > > why would each move 1/2 distance, the volumetric pressure being equal
in
> >the
> > > system and all?
> > >
> > > Brian
> > >
> > > 87 16v
> > > 86 8v (parts car)
> > > 85 Wolfsburg (white coming to a garage near me soon)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Allyn" <amalventano1@home.com>
> > > >To: "Brian Wagner" <scirocco_88_16v@hotmail.com>,
> ><koabi@lazyslacker.com>,
> > > ><scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> > > >Subject: Re: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
> > > >Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 12:38:51 -0500
> > > >
> > > >Yes, but each clutch would move 1/2 the length. Also, if one had more
> > > >resistance than the other, only the one with less resistance would
> >move.
> >We
> > > >would need some kind of dual poston master.
> > > >Al
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "Brian Wagner" <scirocco_88_16v@hotmail.com>
> > > >To: <koabi@lazyslacker.com>; <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> > > >Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 12:33 PM
> > > >Subject: RE: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > A single hydraulic clutch master could be used inconjunction with
2
> > > >slaves,
> > > > > this would ensure equal clutch engagement to both t/m.
> > > > >
> > > > > Brian
> > > > >
> > > > > 87 16v
> > > > > 86 8v (parts car)
> > > > > 85 Wolfsburg (white coming to a garage near me soon)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "koabi brooks" <koabi@lazyslacker.com>
> > > > > >To: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > > > > >Subject: RE: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
> > > > > >Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 12:26:18 -0500
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >im skeptical about the power. two engines 275 HP per = 2*275 HP
> > > > > >total? that seems wrong to me. Anyone care to explain? I
assumed
> > > > > >this bad boy has two trannys with some super huge linkage.
Someone
> > > > > >mentioned something about a hydrolic clutch, which leads me to
> >believe
> > > > > >there would only be ONE tranny, but that makes no sense to me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >englighten me please :)
> > > > > >koabi
> > > > > >
> > > > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > > > >From: owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > > > > >[mailto:owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Dave Ewing
> > > > > >Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 9:08 AM
> > > > > >To: Scirocco List
> > > > > >Subject: Re: Twin 16v Motor pics and site
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >The site did say that each motor was running at 275hp (2.0 or
2.1L
> >16v
> > > > > >on a serious shot of nitrous). That would make it 550hp total.
> >Sounds
> > > > > >like it could be done!? I'd love to take a ride in it!!! I
wonder
> > > > > >what top speed would be? I am sure it would only be restricted
by
> > > > > >gearing!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Dave
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >--
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> > > > >
> > > > >
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