Re: O2 Sensor Works HOW? was: Fw: RE:solder vs. crimp

["MrAudi" <mraudi25@epix.net>]

ok so i'm not perfect. sue me.....lol. but i really think that the computer
uses a set voltage value for rich and lean. ie: 2.50 volts would be off, or
"lean" and 2.60 would be on or "rich" and the puter trys to toggle it just
between those ranges. but feel free to correct me if i am wrong

Jason Neubold
86 Tornado Red 16v
85 Tornado Red Audi Coupe GT
----- Original Message -----
From: "16V Jason" <jason@scirocco.org>
To: "MrAudi" <mraudi25@epix.net>; "Fry, Larry" <LEF@chem-tronics.com>;
"scirocco-mail list" <Scirocco-L@scirocco.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: O2 Sensor Works HOW? was: Fw: RE:solder vs. crimp


> At 08:16 PM 11/14/2001, MrAudi wrote:
> >i just downloaded 140 messages so i apologize if i repeat anything. the
o2
> >sensor works with heat. if you were to observe the o2 output on a cold
car
> >you would see an obvious difference after the car warms up.
>
> Yes, until the O2 sensor reaches normal operating temperature, its output
> is far less than what it should be.  At ambient air temperatures, it's
> close to 0.
>
>
> >  all new cars
> >have heating elements built into the sensor so that it works almost
> >immmediatly after the engine is started.
>
> Correct; I can't speak for the 8V, but the 16V Scirocco has a heated O2
> sensor as well.  It's still several minutes before it's heated to normal
> temperature though.
>
> >  the sensor does not measure
> >anything outside of the exhaust system. the reading from the sensor is
> >analog, but the computer interprets it to be digital (on/off).
>
> Whoa!  Wait a second. :)
> You're right about the first part, but the computer most definitely
> interprets it as an analog value.  The O2 sensor, when warm, creates a
> small voltage with the presence of Oxygen.  It outputs 0V if there is no
> oxygen, and about 1V at "full rich".  The engine computer is continually
> altering the mixture to keep these numbers as close to zero as possible
> unless under full acceleration (open-loop full-rich).
>
>
> >  there for the
> >wires would not have to be exposed to the atmosphere. the problem i was
> >talking about in regards to soldering the wire is this, solder is made up
> >mostly of lead. as we all know lead has a reletivily high resistance to
> >electricity. the computer i a car relys on a precise signal from the o2
> >sensor. a difference of .01 volt will affect the mixture.
>
> Right -- you got all this right, that's why I'm a little 'fused about the
> computer interpreting it digitally (on/off).
>
> In all reality, a difference of 0.01 volt probably won't make enough of a
> difference to anything -- the variation between two identically produced
> oxygen sensors is probably on that order.  But your point is right -- you
> want to have as direct a connection as possible, otherwise your engine
will
> be running slightly richer than the computer thinks it is.
>
>
> >  so soldering the
> >wires with lead solder could concivably affect the sensors operation. ok
now
> >i need to go bandage the pointer fingers on both of my hands.......lol
>
> That's true.
>          It was, however, my understanding that Bosch recommends crimping
> the connection and not using solder for a different reason, namely that of
> heat.  As we know, exhaust systems get very hot... much hotter than
> necessary to turn solder into runny liquid.  Therefore, with the exhaust
at
> normal operating temperature, you risk having the connection fail.
>
> Jason
>
>
>
>
>
> >Jason Neubold
> >86 Tornado Red 16v
> >85 Tornado Red Audi Coupe GT
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Fry, Larry" <LEF@chem-tronics.com>
> >To: "T Berk" <tberk@mindspring.com>
> >Cc: "Scirocco List" <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> >Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 6:49 AM
> >Subject: RE: O2 Sensor Works HOW? was: Fw: RE:solder vs. crimp
> >
> >
> > > Makes no sense that the O2 sensor's designers would have it sampling
> > > atmosphere through an electrical wire (even if that could be done,
which I
> > > doubt) when a simple port in the sensor's body would suffice.  Also,
why
> > > would it need to sample atmosphere at all?  Within a few tenths of a
> > > percent, the concentration of O2 in the atmosphere is a known
constant.
> > > I'm with you on this one, TBerk.
> > >
> > > Larry  sandiego16V
> > > old (anal) crock and his old 'Roc
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: T Berk [mailto:tberk@mindspring.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 9:25 PM
> > > Cc: Scirocco List
> > > Subject: O2 Sensor Works HOW? was: Fw: RE:solder vs. crimp
> > >
> > >
> > > Dave Ewing wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Totally missing the point.  Solder all the wires you want, even use
pipe
> > > > solder, I don't care, I just said that the wires to the 02 sensor
need
> >to
> > > be
> > > > crimped as per Bosch.  This has nothing to do with strength or type
of
> > > > solder or any other wires in the whole car, just the 02 sensor
wires.
> > > This
> > > > is why the generic 3 wire 02 sensors that you can get from Bosch
have
> > > > the crimps on them and includes a note on what to do.  HTH!!
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Is the WIRE really adding value via exposure to outside air  OR  is
the
> > > O2 sensor built with little ports or holes that allow for the sensors'
> > > element to have an Exhaust vs Atmosphere reading?
> > >
> > > I have trouble with the idea the WIRE needs atmosphere exposure. Don't
> > > believe it.  It's my conjecture a crimp on is easier and makes
economic
> > > sense.
> > >
> > > TBerk
> > > sometimes Head = Knuckle, sometimes just Hard.
> > >
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