Re: Shock replacements... Tokiko.. a bit harsh.

["Allyn" <amalventano1@home.com>]

brian,
my rocco was doing that flat spin thing when i bought it. every big bump
caused the car to wander right and left as it bounced up and down. main
cause was the severely blown front right strut. you'd be surprised just how
a scirocco wants to flat spin when its front strut damping doesnt match on
both sides. once i got the konis/neuspeed softsports on the car, all was
well once again.
    having ridden in your car at cincy i think its just the tokikos causing
your havoc. check your springs, i could have swore softsports are black, and
i thought yours were black, so they ought to be softsports. keep those
springs, they work awesome with koni sport adjustables.
    Throw them damn tokikos out the window. A very high window.
al

Allyn Malventano, ET1(SS), USN
87 rocco 16v (rieger gto - green - 'der rocco' - restoration in progress)
87 jetta 8v wolfsburg 2dr (260k, still tight :)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian McGarvey" <brianm@zbt62.eastnet.gatech.edu>
To: "Neal Tovsen" <sixteen.volt@gte.net>
Cc: "Scirocco-L" <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 4:25 PM
Subject: RE: Shock replacements... Tokiko.. a bit harsh.


> I'll go zipping around the block in a couple of days and test each corner
> of the car and inspect each shock/struct for any suspect activity. I'll
> use some grease or something to test if im hitting the bump stops. The
> trip to cincy put me behind schedual for some papers that are due for
> submission...
>
> My initial guess is that if they are adjustable (PO purchased and I've had
> things like bad lower control arms to deal w.) they are all set on brick
> hard. Yes I feel every damn bump in the road. 1" bumps are really bad esp
> at hwy speeds. I get launched on the bridge expansion gaps and then
> smashed back down onto the road. Im going to say that it is a B) but I
> suspect that the right rear has a problem. whether it's low tire pressure
> or what dont know yet as i wont have time to look at it until this
> weekend. the "flat spin" comes on a really big expansion joint or my
> personal favorite a 1" metal plate int he middle of atlanta roads when
> you dont see it. as Mike A about his love for em.
>
> Flat spin description.
> large bump at speed. springs get unloaded when it comes down with a smash
> it tends to twist about center in a CCW fashion.(front goes left rear goes
> right). Ihave to compensate a little with the steering wheel.
>
> Known problems. (passenger side inner tie rod end)
>
> If I had to guess which I do on the setup. the PO prolly bought the race
> nuespeed and set the tokiko's for full on race. cause all the receipt says
> is R&R shock,springs, struts..
>
> kinda like that R&R tranny, motor
>
> I really hope they dont have 2 sets of bump stops in em... eeerrrr...
> brian
> 87 16v trying to get it going straight down the road.
> 81S Duan's new car?
> 84 cabby coming soon to a driveway near me
> 8? cabby going to the brother in FL?
> 8? red cabby for the wife... someday
>
>
>
> On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Neal Tovsen wrote:
>
> > OK, what are the ACTUAL symptoms? You've used the words "harsh",
"bouncing", and
> > "flat-spin" (which I interpreted as "bottoming-out" or "hitting the
> > bump-stops"). These all indicate different problems with different
solutions,
> > though you can certainly experience more than one. Pick one or more from
the
> > following:
> >
> > A) bouncing
> > B) harsh ride
> > C) stiff ride
> > D) bottoming-out
> >
> > (A) continuous oscillation of the suspension, *after* you're past the
bump. This
> > could be the result of sagging springs or underdamped/blown shocks
(depending on
> > severity). Blown shocks are usually VERY obvious! If you have very stiff
springs
> > (as some of the Neuspeeds are), it is quite possible that your shocks
are OK but
> > not up to the task of controlling the stiff springs. In the softest
setting,
> > even my Koni shocks will bounce on moderate highway bumps. If they're
> > adjustable, try a stiffer setting. If they're not, either get stiffer
shocks or
> > softer springs.
> >
> > (B) is more-or-less the oposite of (A), and indicates that you have too
much
> > damping for the spring rate. IMHO, many people (wives, especially!)
confuse a
> > "stiff" ride with a "harsh" ride, which I would define as two different
things.
> > "Harsh" should indicate that the damping is so overly stiff that the
tires
> > cannot follow the profile of bumps in the road, meaning that the car
"crashes"
> > over them. If you feel like every crack in the highway is like a little
ramp
> > launching the car into the air and crashing back down, that's "harsh".
Soften
> > the damping or get stiffer springs.
> >
> > (C) as mentioned above, is a suspension that has correct ratio of
> > spring/damping, but has been tuned for performance driving. "Stiff"
should
> > indicate a properly matched spring/shock combo. Note that a really
stiff, though
> > still properly matched spring/shock combination can equate to "harsh" on
a
> > really bumpy road. Most non-coilover suspensions shouldn't have this
problem. In
> > fact, a good off-the-shelf spring/shock combo can be stiff and yet still
> > reasonably comfortable even on long trips...as long as there aren't too
many
> > LARGE bumps, of course! OTOH, some people just like cushy/floaty
suspension, so
> > they'll describe a "stiff" setup as "harsh", and complain about it.
IMHO, my
> > Koni/H&R setup fits this description.
> >
> > (D) This is *completely* different than the other three. Yes, shocks
can/do
> > provide *some* compression damping, but if you're whacking the bumpstops
on
> > small bumps, it's almost 100% sagging/cut/broken SPRINGS, since they're
actually
> > responsible for holding the car up. The primary job of the shocks is
only to
> > control oscillation. If you keep bouncing *after* hitting a bump
(whether you
> > bottom out or not), see symptiom A.
> >
> > What are the symptoms you're experiencing? If you want to make it easy
on
> > yourself, just get some H&R springs and Bilstein or Koni shocks and be
done with
> > it. If the #1 goal is to make it comfortable for the wife, get stock
springs and
> > Sachs/Boge OEM shocks. Either one should be a good, properly-matched
setup.
> > Problem solved!
>
>
> >
> > FYI, it's been a while since I looked at Illuminas, but IIRC, the
adjusters are
> > on the top, similar to Koni.
> >
> > Neal
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Brian McGarvey [mailto:brianm@zbt62.eastnet.gatech.edu]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 2:16 PM
> > To: josh Wyte
> > Cc: Neal Tovsen; scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > Subject: RE: Shock replacements... Tokiko.. a bit harsh.
> >
> >
> > You mean that when i hit a big bump its not "normal" for it to try and
> > flat spin?
> >
> > I dont think mine are adjustable. but just in case they are where are
the
> > adjusters.. guessing top of the shock/struts...
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, josh Wyte wrote:
> >
> > > Ugh, argh, bleah!  Tokico's, spit!  Don't even get me
> > > started!!
> > >
> > > I had 3 complete sets of the adjustable illuminas blow
> > > out totally in 18 months!!!  I was getting really
> > > tired of taking apart my suspension, let me tell you!
> > > To Tokicos credit they warrantied them promptly, but
> > > after the 3rd set I asked them for my money back,
> > > thank you very much...
> > >
> > > Also, you can't really run the shocks too soft because
> > > they won't be able to control the spring and the car
> > > will bound all over the damn place.  I found with
> > > "sport" springs a decent setting on the street was
> > > '3'...
> > >
> > > -josh
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Neal Tovsen <sixteen.volt@gte.net> wrote:
> > > > If they are the "race" springs, ditch the Neuspeed
> > > > first, then see how you like
> > > > it. Those springs are very hard. Get a good set of
> > > > H&R springs. On a normal
> > > > drive, they're very compliant, but they hold the car
> > > > VERY well in the curves.
> > > >
> > > > If they're the 5-way adjustable shocks and not
> > > > blown, keep the shocks. Tokikos,
> > > > being adjustable, should be fine for your car if
> > > > they are still in good
> > > > shape...just set them soft on the road. Tokikos
> > > > don't have as good a rep around
> > > > here as Bilstein or Koni, but they aren't too bad.
> > > >
> > > > Neal
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > > > [mailto:owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of
> > > > Brian McGarvey
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 2:04 AM
> > > > Cc: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > > > Subject: Shock replacements... Tokiko.. a bit harsh.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hey Ya'll
> > > > I'm looking to mod the car abit in the future. Right
> > > > now I have neuspeed
> > > > springs(dunno what kind, but they are black at least
> > > > in the front) and
> > > > tokiko shocks and struts according to the PO. the
> > > > ride to cincy was the
> > > > first one and I'm _sure_ the wife will complain
> > > > about the bouncing. Cause
> > > > I love the car and it was a bit harsh for me (plenty
> > > > of advil). What do
> > > > folks recommend. I want to retain the lowered look,
> > > > but not the ricey
> > > > type. Im planning of 15" rims w/ some sort of low
> > > > profile tire to retain
> > > > the same OD as stock. suggestions.
> > > >
> > > > brian ( in charge :-) )
> > > > 87 16v -- highly modded resto in progress
> > > > 81S Duan's new car? maybe...
> > > > 8? cabby black -- maybe ( does the Cheapass Ron
> > > > dance... Free!)
> > > > ( Getting the brother outta a Honda!)
> > > > 84 cabby trading for a 4-wheeler (fun in the sun!)
> > > > 8? cabby ... red.. someday. (getting the wife outta
> > > > a honda)
> > > >
> > > >  On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Geordy
> > > > Rostad wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Where is the best place to get the idle stabilizer
> > > > motor for
> > > > > my '88 16valve Jetta (brand new please) is this a
> > > > stealership item
> > > > > or would Mike or Mark have it?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Email LIST problems to:
> > > > scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org.
> > > > > To unsubscibe send "unsubscribe scirocco-l" in the
> > > > message to
> > > > majordomo@scirocco.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Email LIST problems to:
> > > > scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org.
> > > > To unsubscibe send "unsubscribe scirocco-l" in the
> > > > message to
> > > > majordomo@scirocco.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Email LIST problems to:
> > > > scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org.
> > > > To unsubscibe send "unsubscribe scirocco-l" in the
> > > > message to majordomo@scirocco.org
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > =====
> > > Josh Wyte
> > > Momentum Motorsports
> > > 508-833-3024 After 5 pm EST
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
> > > a year!  http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Email LIST problems to: scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org.
> To unsubscibe send "unsubscribe scirocco-l" in the message to
majordomo@scirocco.org
>


--
Email LIST problems to: scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org.
To unsubscibe send "unsubscribe scirocco-l" in the message to majordomo@scirocco.org