Re: [tech] suspension - Front upper stress bar Q's

["Dave Ewing" <rabbit16v@prodigy.net>]

When I installed one on my Rabbit (a cheap one at that) I noticed a huge
difference.  Nothing is cracked or broken on my car so I know that the upper
stress bar was the reason for the difference.  Plus, now that I have the 16v
in my Rabbit, I don't have an upper stress bar because I plan on making it
and haven't got around to it but I did feel the difference when I had to
take the other one off.  My opinion?  DEFINEATELY makes a difference.

Dave
77 Rabbit 2.0L 16v
84 Scirocco

> >Hi Andy,
> >         The upper stress bars won't help the strut towers themselves
from
> >cracking or disforming -- but they will help the torsional rigidy of the
> >car as a whole.  Imagine for a minute what the front of the car looks
like
> >without any body pieces up front.  You have two crossmembers running
> >longitudinally, connected at the bottom by the front crossmember,
> >stressbar, and engine.  But you have no support higher up, because the
hood
> >can't be welded to the fenders...
>
>
>
> >
> >Thus, on bumps and high-force curves, the whole front end of the car can
> >easily bend.  Adding an upper-level support member greatly reduces body
> >flex down below.
> >
> >If you drive a car with an upper brace right after one without, you can
> >feel the difference immediately.  Turn-in is considerably quicker with
the
> >tie-bar.  The steering is more precise over surface irregularities, and
the
> >car tracks much better.  The biggest difference is on long sweepers with
> >undulating or slightly bumpy (i.e. not enough to bottom the
> >suspension).  Take the turn really fast (like at 90%) and keep the
steering
> >wheel in the same spot.  You'll notice the car squirm around a whole lot
> >less with the upper tie bar.  The reason is because the front isn't
flexing
> >as much, which keeps the steering geometry more consistent.
>
> I know I'm not the best driver in the world but, I have put a lot of seat
> time in modified scirocco's, owned them for the last 20 years.   I have
> driven with and without and cannot tell the difference.(upper bar)
>
>
>
> >
> >Mind you, you'll _never_ eliminate body flex on an A1 by doing anything
> >short of welding in a 500-point roll cage, but if you're a sensitive
enough
> >driver to be able to feel the frame flexing, you'll feel a tremendous
> >difference with the upper tie bar.
> >
> >And, as an aside, if it didn't work, stiff-framed cars like the E36 BMW
> >3-series wouldn't use them on the M3s. :)
>
>
> True but that car is a diferent creature and I'll bet they are not held on
b
> y four  tiny (6mm?) bolts that connect to the strut bearing.  Maybe if you
> welded them to the car you might see some difference.
> >Jason
> >
> >
> >
> >At 08:14 PM 1/15/01 , andkat wrote:
> >>I don't think anybody would notice the car handling any different with
or
> >>without a upper stress bar.  The only time I've seen the paint on the
> strut
> >>towers cracking is after somebody hit a curb.  There is just know way
> those
> >>things are going to flex enough to make a difference. The lower is a
> >>completely different story.
> >>
> >>Andy 1.9 '79
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Randy Block <RandyB@E-Risk.com>
> >>To: scirocco-l@scirocco.org <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> >>Date: 15 January, 2001 12:29 PM
> >>Subject: [tech] suspension - Front upper stress bar Q's
> >>
> >>
> >> >Ok,
> >> >Since were on the subject of suspension components.
> >> >I am currently running a Neuspeed upper strut tie bar, always have on
my
> >> >A1's
> >> >What are others running that they believe to be better and why?
> >> >I have always had my doubts about the Neuspeed unit due to small
tubing
> >>dia.
> >> >and possible flex at the bends.
> >> >I have had to BOW the bar to get it to fit before, this seems to
> discredit
> >> >the functionality of the bar, right?
> >> >Should the bar have SOME flex in it?
> >> >I have seen other designs that seem to provide more stiffness, Dick
W's
> >> >square tube bar, Craig's stainless bar, bars with much larger tubing
> dia,
> >> >etc... etc...
> >> >My guess is the reason the Neuspeed bar is so common is simply due to
> the
> >> >#'s made and the low price.
> >> >
> >> >I guess my question is:
> >> >Is STIFFER better, or should there be a little flex in the upper strut
> tie
> >> >bar.
> >> >
> >> >Thanks,
> >> >
> >> >Randy B
> >> >81 (Mars) Scirocco S - Techtonics Tuning 1847cc 8V
> >> >81 (Cosmos) Scirocco S - future Oettinger 16V project
> >> >87 Jetta GLI 16V - daily driver
> >> >
> >> >--
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> send
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> >> >
> >>
> >>
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----------
> >1987 Scirocco 16v
> >1988 Mercedes 190E Sport Euro
> >
> >
> >http://www.scirocco16v.org
> >
> >
> >--
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> >
>
>
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