RE: Scirocco.org a club? WTF

["Shannon Fenton" <sfenton@amazon.com>]

-----Original Message-----
From: Neal Tovsen [mailto:sixteen.volt@gte.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 10:21 AM
To: Shannon Fenton; Ben Rogowski; Scirocco List
Subject: RE: Scirocco.org a club? WTF


> What the f__k are you all talking about!!

Whoooa-Nellie!! Easy, friend.

If you just caught the tail-end of the thread, don't get so worked up. It
really has just been a friendly conversation. Please, let's not turn this
into another flame war.

>>Im not nor did I mean to. Im a little frazzled as of late after spending
most my morning deleting 150 or so posts of which 30 or so were not idle
chatter and concerned actual Scirocco questions. It sucks but I remain here
to help, deleting posts takes that much more time away from helping.

To review, some members brought the idea up that there might be advantages
to making the club "more organized". Some people are explaining why they
think it's a good idea, and others are explaining why they think it's not.

>>Just as I did.

There's no harm in having the conversation, is there? I think it meets all
the "on-topic" martial laws. Right Chris?

Anyway, judging from the thread as a whole, I don't think anyone is planning
anything. Just doing a little brain-storming, that's all.

>>Rock on.

Neal



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> [mailto:owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Shannon Fenton
> Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 12:43 PM
> To: Ben Rogowski; Scirocco List
> Subject: RE: Scirocco.org a club? WTF
>
>
> What the f__k are you all talking about!! Im just catching the tail end of
> this thread so I may be ignorant but membership dues?! We went
> through this
> when we went around with the Rennsport dingbats....we ALREADY ARE
> A CLUB. I
> dont need to pay anyone, buy a damn coffee cup, buy a cup holder or wear a
> t-shirt to prove it. Come on people use your heads...if it isnt broke dont
> fix it.
>
> I didnt mind chipping in for the website, and if we need to move it or
> something fine...whats the bill. We can all chip in. But dues..come on.
>
> Its bad enough that there are people on the list that cant act
> like adults.
> Now we must babysit them as well and create rules of conduct.
>
> Ive seen the next level of most clubs and its ugly.
> Bahh..whatever...ive got
> a www.scirocco16v.com meeting tonight at petes pizza. Were always
> accepting
> new members.
>
> What the hell has happened to this list....
>
>
> Shannon Fenton
> www.scirocco16v.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> [mailto:owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Ben Rogowski
> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 4:17 PM
> To: Scirocco List
> Subject: Re: Scirocco.org a club? [long]
>
>
> As far as transforming the list into an organized club, I am against it.
> I'm the membership coordinator and newsletter editor of a club here in
> Minneapolis called Volksport.  Check it out at www.volksport.com  We've
> actually got a few members besides myself on this list.  Running a club
> takes a lot of time and dedication, from quite a few people.  Some of the
> time it's a downright pain in the ass.  I do love my club, (both
> my clubs i
> should say; I'd be nowhere without the Scirocco List) but our mailing
> list/internet club has most of the benefits, with much less effort.  At
> least from my point of view, as i don't have to run the site at all.  It's
> great to have local gatherings of members, and we should probably do some
> 'List gatherings here in the upper midwest.  The fact is Scirocco.org
> doesn't have to deal with the issues like membership management, a bank
> account, insurance fees, mandatory monthly meetings for those who run the
> club, etc.  We've actually been trying to streamline our club so
> that we're
> more internet oriented, like Scirocco.org.  I guess what I have to ask is
> why ruin a good thing?
>
> Ben R
> '79 Scirocco 1.8 16v, Coilovers go in tonight!!
> '86.5 Quantum Syncro Wagon
> '00 Suzuki SV 650
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ben Rogowski" <bgr13@mn.rr.com>
> To: "Ben Rogowski" <bgr13@mn.rr.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 11:28 AM
> Subject: Fw: Scirocco.org a club? [long]
>
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Neal Tovsen" <sixteen.volt@gte.net>
> > To: "Brad Sterling" <bgsterling@earthlink.net>; "Scirocco List"
> > <scirocco-L@scirocco.org>
> > Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 11:09 PM
> > Subject: RE: Scirocco.org a club? [long]
> >
> >
> > > Comments inline:
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Brad Sterling [mailto:bgsterling@earthlink.net]
> > > > Neal, you ignorant slut (showing my age with that reference).
> > >
> > > While technically true, I WAS hoping to keep it a secret. ;)
> > >
> > > ----Big 'ol huge SNIP----
> > >
> > > > My point:  new car sales help, but aren't a necessity.
> > >
> > > More-or-less what I said, I think. I completely agree.
> > >
> > >
> > > > For that matter, I'd argue that many of the new Impreza drivers are
> > caught
> > > > up in the next big thing and you'll see an increase in membership
> > followed
> > > > by a downturn when the Subie falls out of trend.
> > >
> > > I'm with you here. The Impreza has certain features which has
> started to
> > > attract a peculiar type of enthusiast. While I don't think they
> represent
> > > the majority of Subaru enthusiasts, they do tend to be less
> brand-loyal
> > when
> > > another car (one with a bigger wing, usually) comes out. These are the
> > > people who will leave after the fad is gone.
> > >
> > >
> > > > As for Manufacturer/Dealer/Industry support, I think the
> key word here
> > is
> > > > Industry. Now I'm sure Mark and Mike are
> > > > not hurting for business with all of the VWs on the road,
> but just as
> > this
> > > > list supports them, I would bet they'd want to support a group that
> > helps
> > > > them.  It's kind of a sinking-ship, we're-all-in-this-together
> > > > relationship.
> > >
> > > Yes, I believe that is what they're doing now. And a damn fine job,
> IMHO.
> > >
> > >
> > > > My long-winded point is that a club
> > > > doesn't have to
> > > > be as grand as what you're used to.
> > > ---snip---
> > > > Instead of a newsletter, perhaps we could work
> > > > on a good
> > > > list of FAQs (starting with our current one of course) that can be
> > emailed
> > > > to everyone as they join the list and also posted once a month
> > > > (kind of like
> > > > a monthly newsletter).
> > >
> > > Sounds like what we do already, except perhaps better
> > maintained/organized.
> > > We've been working on being better organized for years, but everyone
> > > (especially myself!) is guilty of being "too busy". A little
> > self-dicipline
> > > on everyone's part would do wonders for this one.
> > >
> > >
> > > > I'd even be willing to help compile this list of
> > > > tire/wheel sizes, tune-up specs, sway bar options, oil in the air
> filter
> > > > solutions, etc.
> > >
> > > That's what everyone says, including me. Sadly, except for a
> very recent
> > > spurt of activity, our Website hasn't changed dramatically in the 3+
> years
> > > I've been on the list. This has been true of most clubs I've been in.
> > People
> > > want all the benes, but when it comes time to CONTRIBUTE, "ah...I just
> > don't
> > > have time". Guilty as charged.
> > >
> > >
> > > > My last point, regarding dues, would be they have some merit.  We
> > > > could set
> > > > up some cheap dues (so as not to make Ron leave) and
> promise a T-shirt
> > or
> > > > specially molded, Scirocco cup that fits behind the e-brake.
> > >
> > > Cup holders? You must have read my mind! (or my earlier post...) Where
> do
> > I
> > > send the money??
> > >
> > >
> > > > This will keep
> > > > out the timid or flame-war-starters (what was that dude's name),
> > > > pay for the
> > > > website hosting fees, and get us some club merchandise.  Hell,
> > > > many on this
> > > > list have said they're willing to pay $15-$25 for a hat or t-shirt.
> It
> > > > would be like buying a hat or t-shirt and getting the membership for
> > free.
> > > > If Adirondak and Virtual parts give a small discount to members, the
> > > > membership pays for itself the first time you buy motor mounts or a
> sway
> > > > bar.  The downside, we'd have to get a President,
> Treasurer, etc. and
> > > > incorporate.
> > >
> > > Again, sounds like what we're doing. We've got free hosting (thanks
> > > Christopher!!!!), Brett is the only one who really has put
> lots of sweat
> > > equity into the Web site, and Mark/Mike already give us discounts. For
> our
> > > $15-$25, we can call up Wassersport and get a t-shirt, and
> several times
> a
> > > year we can all wear them together at places like Cincy, ND, and
> > Waterfest.
> > > Where's the big win?
> > >
> > > /MY/ long-winded point, you crotchety old coot (ha! backattcha!), is
> that
> > I
> > > think it would be really cool to do all this stuff, but I'm
> still trying
> > to
> > > reconcile it all in my head. Scirocco.org kicks ass, and it is cool to
> say
> > > that we don't have dues or centralized leadership but we still have
> > > gatherings and club discounts with a few vendors. For the
> amount of work
> > we
> > > collectively put into this club, we get a lot of cool benefits! I'm
> still
> > > not sure we'd really be getting something more than the awesome
> phenomena
> > we
> > > already have. Would it make us more of a tight-knit group?
> Would we all
> > get
> > > along better? Would we have more/better gatherings? Would we save LOTS
> of
> > > money from vendors? Would we all get rich? My gut reaction to
> each these
> > is
> > > either a solid "NO", or a "well...I suppose it'd be a little
> better than
> > it
> > > is now". There's a lot of effort involved in running a "serious" club,
> and
> > > I'm not sure that the payoff is so huge.
> > >
> > > PLEASE realize that I'm playing Devil's Advocate more than anything.
> I've
> > > already pledged my support to anyone who's willing to give it a go.
> > >
> > > SO...
> > > Step up, Mr. President!
> > >
> > > Neal
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
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> > >
> >
>
>
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