Re: Scirocco.org a club? [this one's long, also]

["Ryan McCarthy" <rmccarthy777@msn.com>]

    I just have to say that I don't think the list should ever be fee based.
It's just too valuable and too much of a landmark to discourage scirocco
owners/lovers from reading and sharing. I DO think, however, that this club,
scirocco.org, has a HUGE potential to evolve to another level. I'm not sure
what *exactly* the next level is, but this organization is fairly singular
in what it may become. That doesn't mean it HAS to, or that it will be,
well, it doesn't really mean anything at all. But, if the majority of the
body of this organization desires to move farther than where it stands
today, we are in a position to do so. But, that does mean that the GREAT
MAJORITY must desire and agree with the decision to change. If no majority
agreement exists, then there should not be any change, I feel. The truth is
that this club does not NEED to change in order to continue it's existence.
We can go on like we are pretty much forever. However, there will be things
we would miss out on, opportunities that can never be realized. I leave
these to your imagination.
    In closing I will say that no scirocco enthusiast should ever be turned
away due to monetary deficiencies. With this in mind, we should pursue
potential opportunities for further growth and also the prospect of
maximizing our future. There are no more Sciroccos being manufactured. We
are the coordinators of our own collective futures (as it applies to our
Sciroccos anyway). Let's not forget that and work together in that vein.

Ryan




> I have to agree with Ben here.
> Remember many of your "members" are cheaper/poorer than Ron.
> think about how many of us use the list not for the coolness factor but
> as a ready source of information and just a place to hang that is FREE...
> If I had to pay well. Im a libertarian and cant afford the dues so guess
> what.. I dont pay.
> brian
>
>
> On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Ben Rogowski wrote:
>
> > As far as transforming the list into an organized club, I am against it.
> > I'm the membership coordinator and newsletter editor of a club here in
> > Minneapolis called Volksport.  Check it out at www.volksport.com  We've
> > actually got a few members besides myself on this list.  Running a club
> > takes a lot of time and dedication, from quite a few people.  Some of
the
> > time it's a downright pain in the ass.  I do love my club, (both my
clubs i
> > should say; I'd be nowhere without the Scirocco List) but our mailing
> > list/internet club has most of the benefits, with much less effort.  At
> > least from my point of view, as i don't have to run the site at all.
It's
> > great to have local gatherings of members, and we should probably do
some
> > 'List gatherings here in the upper midwest.  The fact is Scirocco.org
> > doesn't have to deal with the issues like membership management, a bank
> > account, insurance fees, mandatory monthly meetings for those who run
the
> > club, etc.  We've actually been trying to streamline our club so that
we're
> > more internet oriented, like Scirocco.org.  I guess what I have to ask
is
> > why ruin a good thing?
> >
> > Ben R
> > '79 Scirocco 1.8 16v, Coilovers go in tonight!!
> > '86.5 Quantum Syncro Wagon
> > '00 Suzuki SV 650
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ben Rogowski" <bgr13@mn.rr.com>
> > To: "Ben Rogowski" <bgr13@mn.rr.com>
> > Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 11:28 AM
> > Subject: Fw: Scirocco.org a club? [long]
> >
> >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Neal Tovsen" <sixteen.volt@gte.net>
> > > To: "Brad Sterling" <bgsterling@earthlink.net>; "Scirocco List"
> > > <scirocco-L@scirocco.org>
> > > Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 11:09 PM
> > > Subject: RE: Scirocco.org a club? [long]
> > >
> > >
> > > > Comments inline:
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Brad Sterling [mailto:bgsterling@earthlink.net]
> > > > > Neal, you ignorant slut (showing my age with that reference).
> > > >
> > > > While technically true, I WAS hoping to keep it a secret. ;)
> > > >
> > > > ----Big 'ol huge SNIP----
> > > >
> > > > > My point:  new car sales help, but aren't a necessity.
> > > >
> > > > More-or-less what I said, I think. I completely agree.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > For that matter, I'd argue that many of the new Impreza drivers
are
> > > caught
> > > > > up in the next big thing and you'll see an increase in membership
> > > followed
> > > > > by a downturn when the Subie falls out of trend.
> > > >
> > > > I'm with you here. The Impreza has certain features which has
started to
> > > > attract a peculiar type of enthusiast. While I don't think they
> > represent
> > > > the majority of Subaru enthusiasts, they do tend to be less
brand-loyal
> > > when
> > > > another car (one with a bigger wing, usually) comes out. These are
the
> > > > people who will leave after the fad is gone.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > As for Manufacturer/Dealer/Industry support, I think the key word
here
> > > is
> > > > > Industry. Now I'm sure Mark and Mike are
> > > > > not hurting for business with all of the VWs on the road, but just
as
> > > this
> > > > > list supports them, I would bet they'd want to support a group
that
> > > helps
> > > > > them.  It's kind of a sinking-ship, we're-all-in-this-together
> > > > > relationship.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, I believe that is what they're doing now. And a damn fine job,
> > IMHO.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > My long-winded point is that a club
> > > > > doesn't have to
> > > > > be as grand as what you're used to.
> > > > ---snip---
> > > > > Instead of a newsletter, perhaps we could work
> > > > > on a good
> > > > > list of FAQs (starting with our current one of course) that can be
> > > emailed
> > > > > to everyone as they join the list and also posted once a month
> > > > > (kind of like
> > > > > a monthly newsletter).
> > > >
> > > > Sounds like what we do already, except perhaps better
> > > maintained/organized.
> > > > We've been working on being better organized for years, but everyone
> > > > (especially myself!) is guilty of being "too busy". A little
> > > self-dicipline
> > > > on everyone's part would do wonders for this one.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I'd even be willing to help compile this list of
> > > > > tire/wheel sizes, tune-up specs, sway bar options, oil in the air
> > filter
> > > > > solutions, etc.
> > > >
> > > > That's what everyone says, including me. Sadly, except for a very
recent
> > > > spurt of activity, our Website hasn't changed dramatically in the 3+
> > years
> > > > I've been on the list. This has been true of most clubs I've been
in.
> > > People
> > > > want all the benes, but when it comes time to CONTRIBUTE, "ah...I
just
> > > don't
> > > > have time". Guilty as charged.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > My last point, regarding dues, would be they have some merit.  We
> > > > > could set
> > > > > up some cheap dues (so as not to make Ron leave) and promise a
T-shirt
> > > or
> > > > > specially molded, Scirocco cup that fits behind the e-brake.
> > > >
> > > > Cup holders? You must have read my mind! (or my earlier post...)
Where
> > do
> > > I
> > > > send the money??
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > This will keep
> > > > > out the timid or flame-war-starters (what was that dude's name),
> > > > > pay for the
> > > > > website hosting fees, and get us some club merchandise.  Hell,
> > > > > many on this
> > > > > list have said they're willing to pay $15-$25 for a hat or
t-shirt.
> > It
> > > > > would be like buying a hat or t-shirt and getting the membership
for
> > > free.
> > > > > If Adirondak and Virtual parts give a small discount to members,
the
> > > > > membership pays for itself the first time you buy motor mounts or
a
> > sway
> > > > > bar.  The downside, we'd have to get a President, Treasurer, etc.
and
> > > > > incorporate.
> > > >
> > > > Again, sounds like what we're doing. We've got free hosting (thanks
> > > > Christopher!!!!), Brett is the only one who really has put lots of
sweat
> > > > equity into the Web site, and Mark/Mike already give us discounts.
For
> > our
> > > > $15-$25, we can call up Wassersport and get a t-shirt, and several
times
> > a
> > > > year we can all wear them together at places like Cincy, ND, and
> > > Waterfest.
> > > > Where's the big win?
> > > >
> > > > /MY/ long-winded point, you crotchety old coot (ha! backattcha!), is
> > that
> > > I
> > > > think it would be really cool to do all this stuff, but I'm still
trying
> > > to
> > > > reconcile it all in my head. Scirocco.org kicks ass, and it is cool
to
> > say
> > > > that we don't have dues or centralized leadership but we still have
> > > > gatherings and club discounts with a few vendors. For the amount of
work
> > > we
> > > > collectively put into this club, we get a lot of cool benefits! I'm
> > still
> > > > not sure we'd really be getting something more than the awesome
> > phenomena
> > > we
> > > > already have. Would it make us more of a tight-knit group? Would we
all
> > > get
> > > > along better? Would we have more/better gatherings? Would we save
LOTS
> > of
> > > > money from vendors? Would we all get rich? My gut reaction to each
these
> > > is
> > > > either a solid "NO", or a "well...I suppose it'd be a little better
than
> > > it
> > > > is now". There's a lot of effort involved in running a "serious"
club,
> > and
> > > > I'm not sure that the payoff is so huge.
> > > >
> > > > PLEASE realize that I'm playing Devil's Advocate more than anything.
> > I've
> > > > already pledged my support to anyone who's willing to give it a go.
> > > >
> > > > SO...
> > > > Step up, Mr. President!
> > > >
> > > > Neal
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Email LIST problems to: scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org. To unsubscibe
> > send
> > > > "unsubscribe scirocco-l" in the message to majordomo@scirocco.org
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
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send
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> >
> >
>
>
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