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RE: Scirocco.org a club? [long]
Good points, Neal, but let me play Counterpoint to your Point.
Neal, you ignorant slut (showing my age with that reference). I'm a member
of the Binder Bulletin (International Light Duty Trucks) and was once the
Treasurer of the Alfa Romeo Owners Club of Southern Cal. The Binder club is
based around a BBS type website (www.binderbulletin.org) and AROCSC was a
traditional club, pre-WWW, with monthly meetings. While lessons from both
could be valuable here, the Binder Bulletin is most like our current
situation. International hasn't put out a Light Duty Truck in over 20
years. For that matter, the Scouts and Scout 2s didn't have the same kind
of commercial sales success as the Broncos or Blazers (despite being a
better truck). Regardless, the club remains strong and active without
having these new car owners as a potential influx. This is because the
remaining people who own an International are nuts about these vehicles.
People traversing the country for national events, people with barnloads of
vehicles in various states of disrepair, people customizing their vehicle
for racing, 4x4ing, etc., and people (like me), who use them for their
intended use because we feel no other vehicle does that job better. Doesn't
that sound familiar? We're not as large as your I-group, but we have a
quarterly newsletter, pay dues, get discounts, and meet at regional and
national IH gatherings. I believe it is a full time job for the guy running
the website too. My point: new car sales help, but aren't a necessity.
For that matter, I'd argue that many of the new Impreza drivers are caught
up in the next big thing and you'll see an increase in membership followed
by a downturn when the Subie falls out of trend. (For the record, I think
the WRX is a great car. I've been trying to talk the SO into a WRX instead
of a GTI, so I'm not picking on your group).
As for Manufacturer/Dealer/Industry support, I think the key word here is
Industry. Again, IH hasn't sold light trucks in 20 years and Alfa left
these shores in the early 90s (still upset about not getting the 156 or the
GTV). Needless to say, we don't get much manufacturer or dealer support.
However, we get industry support from the aftermarket parts suppliers, the
NOS suppliers, mechanics, etc. These are the people that advertise in the
newsletters and on the websites and give discounts to members. Why
shouldn't they? It's a concentrated target market for them. Meanwhile,
members support those companies because they want to keep them afloat for
the inevitable model specific parts order. Now I'm sure Mark and Mike are
not hurting for business with all of the VWs on the road, but just as this
list supports them, I would bet they'd want to support a group that helps
them. It's kind of a sinking-ship, we're-all-in-this-together relationship.
Neal, you make some good points. Both would help to make getting a club off
the ground much easier. My long-winded point is that a club doesn't have to
be as grand as what you're used to. As someone said, if there is someone
(or someones) dedicated enough to the concept and they keep a realistic
expectation, it could work. That being said, I'm not sure we're far from a
club now. Other than a newsletter, we have get togethers (regional and
national), we get discounts from Mike (can't speak for Mark, I'm a West
Coaster), and the only dues we pay are having to wade through 100+
emails/day, sit through an occasional flame war and see similar questions
pop up regularly. Instead of a newsletter, perhaps we could work on a good
list of FAQs (starting with our current one of course) that can be emailed
to everyone as they join the list and also posted once a month (kind of like
a monthly newsletter). I'd even be willing to help compile this list of
tire/wheel sizes, tune-up specs, sway bar options, oil in the air filter
solutions, etc.
My last point, regarding dues, would be they have some merit. We could set
up some cheap dues (so as not to make Ron leave) and promise a T-shirt or
specially molded, Scirocco cup that fits behind the e-brake. This will keep
out the timid or flame-war-starters (what was that dude's name), pay for the
website hosting fees, and get us some club merchandise. Hell, many on this
list have said they're willing to pay $15-$25 for a hat or t-shirt. It
would be like buying a hat or t-shirt and getting the membership for free.
If Adirondak and Virtual parts give a small discount to members, the
membership pays for itself the first time you buy motor mounts or a sway
bar. The downside, we'd have to get a President, Treasurer, etc. and
incorporate.
Anyway, my long .02.
- Brad
'86.5 Volkswagen Scirocco 16v
'76 International Scout II
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org [mailto:owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org]On
Behalf Of Neal Tovsen
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 6:57 PM
To: MIKE BLAIN; scirocco-l@scirocco.org
Subject: RE: Scirocco.org a club?
Sorry in advance. I had no idea this post would be so long-winded!!
There are certainly benefits to be had for a "chartered" club. But do you
think that there is a large enough group to warrant something like this? As
much as I know we all love our Sciroccos, I'm not sure there are enough of
us to make something so grand happen. I know my earlier post was might not
show it, but I have actually thought about it a bit:
I own a Subaru Impreza 2.5RS. www.i-club.com (formerly www.impreza-rs.com)
has taken off with a complete life of its own over the past couple years as
these cars become more popular in the US. Though they haven't started
getting paid for it yet, and never intended to make this a profession, the
originators of the web site (the "Imprezidents") are already headed in that
direction doing just the things you mention. There are two things that make
this a possibility for the i-club, and difficult for scirocco.org:
1) New Car
It's a brand-new car that is already huge world-wide and is just now
becoming popular in the US. There are already 4400 registered members on the
message board, 3000 of which are official "members", meaning they actually
own Subarus. The 2700+ Impreza owners (nearly all RS') represents about 15%
of all RS' sold since it came out three years ago. That means roughly 1 in 7
RS owners is an Internet-connected enthusiast. That's an impressive hit
ratio. The future will only get brighter as the WRX is released.
2) Manufacturer/Dealer/Industry Support
While it is just beginning in the US, Subaru has a greater reputation for
supporting enthusiast communities and motorsports world-wide. Subaru USA
actually paid for the Imprezidents to see the WRX unveiling at Detroit.
Subaru is also putting out contingency money for rally and solo races. In
fact, all new '02 WRX owners will be given an SCCA membership. My friend
actually received a congratulatory email from the local dealership for his
3rd place STS finish at the ProSolo last week...can you imagine that? Parts
departments (the smart ones, anyway) are doing everything they can to get
Euro- and JDM-spec parts shipped to the US. Subaru is already hinting that
it may even start bringing in STI and/or Prodrive badged cars as factory
hot-hotrods.
Anybody seeing these sorts of things happen in VW circles? Didn't think so.
The VW Owners Club caters to socially-aware yuppies who like pop rock and
"cute" new cars. This isn't bad, and I don't blame VW for tapping a great
market, but it does mean they don't give a rat's patooty about us Scirocco
owners. If they were to change their mind, it'd be a different story. With
the success of cars like the Impreza and the Civic, you'd think they'd try.
Without this sort of phenomena, the idea of Scirocco.org supporting a
chartered club, much less a full-time staff to support it, is difficult. I'm
behind anyone who wants to try, though!
Neal
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MIKE BLAIN [mailto:reptileis@home.com]
> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 7:38 PM
> To: Neal Tovsen; scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> Subject: Re: Scirocco.org a club?
>
>
> Largest benefit: Club bennies- deeper discounts are offered to accredited
> organizations. Sure there are dues- but with those dues we could hire an
> individual to condense the best tech advice per month into a hard
> copy letter,
> with current or localized event releases. In the newsletter we could sell
> advertising to parts suppliers- with the profit we could begin
> and maintain our
> own custom parts "supply house" for Items like euro bumpers, CF
> components,
> Clear MK1 signal lenses, Or how about install ready relay kits
> for lights? These
> will also create revenue.
>
> For an individual this could become a full time job- souring
> parts, maintaining
> list quality- updating their site, and editing the monthly
> newsletter. Paid
> for by dues, discount specialty parts (mentioned earlier), and ad sales.
>
> I belong to several Herpetological organizations run in this
> manner. It seems
> to work- and I certainly like the added organization- and
> discounts that comes
> as a result. Local chapters are fine- they are simply tech days and beer
> swilling with friends. I don't see a Localized club happening as
> an offshoot of
> a larger club- just not enough finances to permit it. A few
> areas already have
> their little groups and "meetings."
>
> The biggest problem in this venture is the limited growth potential of the
> Scirocco market-
>
> If Dues are a concern- then those unwilling to pay them are
> simply excluded
> from the monthly mailing. I, for one would like to be able to
> reference back to
> hard copy issues- for tech advise I knew I would need later but
> was unable to
> hold onto through my email program. Not to mention the time it would save
> answering redundant list questions. "See Volume 2 issue 7 page 9
> for benefits
> of Knife edged cranks. Oh- and look there is an ad of a machinist that
> specializes in VW 's- cool."
>
>
> :^)
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> Neal Tovsen wrote:
>
> > I'm with Jim on this one. We are one club. The Club. Getting together
> > locally is awesome, but what is the real purpose of a local
> chapter? What
> > would the benefits be? I'm not sure that it really does
> anything for us as a
> > group.
> >
> > Besides, if we start talking about chapters, then we need to
> start talking
> > about Presidents, Secretaries, Treasurers, blah, blah, blah. Then we get
> > into insurance issues, yearly dues, name copyrights, etc. Yuck. I really
> > like the "autonomous collective" bit myself. [insert Holy Grail
> references
> > here]
> >
> > Neal
> > Scirocco.org Member
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > > [mailto:owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Jim Jarrett
> > > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 6:12 PM
> > > To: Ryan McCarthy; scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > > Subject: Re: Scirocco.org a club?
> > >
> > >
> > > At 2:53 PM -0500 2/25/01, Ryan McCarthy wrote:
> > > >Has anyone ever thought of starting local chapters of scirocco.org?
> > >
> > >
> > > I think by our very nature, coming together via the list and the
> > > website, that this idea doesn't really make sense. I'm not dissing
> > > you here; I just think that there is one Scirocco.org, and we're all
> > > members.
> > >
> > > > I think
> > > >that would be a great way of bringing this club into the "real
> > > world", so to
> > > >speak.
> > >
> > >
> > > Now, what IS cool is when you can actually get together with other
> > > list memebers. Not just ND, Cincy, Waterfest....other car shows, or
> > > just get a bunch of people together. I've done this several times at
> > > my place; the infamous "Tech Procedure Weekends" where we put the
> > > engine in my Convertible, or Dyno Day...
> > >
> > >
> > > I've made some really good friends off this list, and that's how -
> > > start by getting your "local" listers together. Then branch out to
> > > the adjoining states. :)
> > >
> > >
> > > /===============================================================\
> > > | Jim Jarrett http://www2.rpa.net/~jarrett |
> > > | mailto:jarrett@rpa.net |
> > > | |
> > > | Any problem can be solved with the proper application of |
> > > | Force, Heat, Chemicals, or Money. |
> > > \===============================================================/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Email LIST problems to: scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org. To
> unsubscibe send
> > > "unsubscribe scirocco-l" in the message to majordomo@scirocco.org
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Email LIST problems to: scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org. To
> unsubscibe send
> > "unsubscribe scirocco-l" in the message to majordomo@scirocco.org
>
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