Re: Corrado Brakes -- Physics Question: Are they pointless?

[16V JASON <jason@scirocco.org>]

At 06:02 PM 2/5/99 , Shawn C Meze wrote:

>>	There are a lot of reasons-- chassis stiffness, for one.  

>Buuuuuuuuuut I thought you just said the tires were the limiting factor?


	I did, sweetie darling.  However, the stiffer the chassis and better the
suspension design, the more able the car is to keep all four tires on the
road squarely... which will increase each tire's ability to slow the car,
and therefore decrease stopping distances.


>Riley, is he molesting you again? Doesn't this violate your probation
>Jason?!

	And you accuse ME of smoking Crack?!


>Considering the vast variations of brake fade, id say going to 11's is
>still a good move. call it a safety cushion if it makes you feel better.

	See, that's where you're neglecting the one point which makes your
argument moot:  Since we've agreed that it's the tires which limit the
OVERALL braking ability of the car, adding 22" rotors won't make the car
stop any faster under full braking.  So, it's not a safety cushion.
	And sure, the pedal will require less than 1 OUNCE of pedal pressure to
lock the fronts up (and cause the seatbelts to lock, as you said in another
post), but the bottom line is when you MASH the pedal on the 10.1s, they'll
get you to 0 just as quick.

>Has Riley enabled his 10.1's to fade or partial fade? Ever shot a temp

	Not AFAIK... and he's got shitty pads.

>car weighs.) is but as ive said, I drive my car much harder on a
>continuous basis to warrant a 10.1 or 11" upgrade yet I still manage to
>successfully use my stocker sized9.4's.

	Bingo.  That's my point.  If you can do it with 9.4s, and the rest of us
can do it with 10.1s, then why would someone need 11"s?

>Kewl, I Didn't make either ones point. LOL!
>you 2 keep discussing while I get another cup of Kona coffee..... 

	Just keep on a'slurping.


>Let me drive your car, I'll show you what brake fade is while you scream
>like a girl. (I do it to lots of people, don't be alarmed.)

	You scream like a girl lots, or you try to kill people lots.

>Try a 110 mph blast off the freeway off ramp to a stop. (don't do this
>with other people around. That's uncool.)This will truly show you if you
>have brake fade issues. 

	Like I said in my past posts, I've done EIGHT consecutive all-out braking
tests from 60mph, without any appreciable fade with the Ferodos.  I think
it's safe to say that a 110-0 stint (which will, according to physics, give
4 times the heat of a 60-0 stop), wouldn't fade my fronts either.  
	I will not make the same claim for my brakes when I had the MMs or stock
pads on there, btw.


>So.... is this really about Jason not being able to get the 11' brakes
>and Riley can? what's the real story here?
>Will Riley get the 11's and sadden Jason?
>Will Jason talk Riley out of the upgrade?
>Is it me or does everybody here detect some kind of sexual tension
>between these two??
><Megaman flame suit -ON->


<Magaman flame suit - DEACTIVATED>
Riley can do what he wants! Why do I care?!?  
I think Shawn's jealous cause he didn't get a piece of me in Jail like he
wanted to. :)


>NE-GA-TIVE! 
>85% of the braking is done with the front brakes.


	My point *exactly*.  If we take your (correct) assumption that the fronts
do 85% of the braking.  That means that the rears do 15%, right?  Okay,
let's take that 15% and reduce it by a 1/3 to 10% because of the
newly-founded bias problem because of the 11s.  That, coupled with our
agreement that the TIRES' grip limits the overall braking force, says that
adding the new 11s, while increasing feel and modulation and all that fun
stuff, will REDUCE THE OVERALL EFFECTIVENESS OF THE BRAKING SYSTEM BY 5%
So much for a safety cushion, cause you're nice feeling 11s will take you
longer to stop than my well-balanced 10s.... see my point? <sounds of
freebasing suddenly disappearing>

>Well, in stock form, no, you are right you cant adjust the bias. BUT, you
>can get adjustable prop valves and custom adjust the bias. Even still,
>you don't need to change the prop valve, it will work fine.

	Okay, so assuming I am right above (which I am), that means to get the
proportioning right, you would have to either upgrade the rears, or get a
custom proportioning valve.  Either way, it's gonna cost you MORE on top of
the 11" swap-- which, if you recall, offers no "safety" margin.  And, let's
be realistic here, if you're driving fast enough on the STREETS to fade the
10"s, you're not overly concerned about safety, right?

>Glad to help in anyway I possibly can. How can I say no to my former cell
>mate? C'mon!

Sheesh... I wish you hadn't. :)

Jason



----------
jason@scirocco.org
1987 Scirocco 16v
57,000 original miles.
http://members.aol.com/rocco16v  

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