Re: CIS vs CIS-E (was: Idle Problems)

["Chris DeLong" <green536@hotmail.com>]

Munch, munch (eating shoe now). :-)
Chris DeLong
'80 16V Ragtop
'78 'Rocco
'82 GLI
'65 Bus (ugly, but good for campin')
'61 17 window
'80 'vert
----- Original Message -----
From: Bradley Peet <btpeet@effervescent.com>
To: <scirocco-L@scirocco.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 1999 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: CIS vs CIS-E (was: Idle Problems)


> The Bentley manual for 75-84 R/J/S uses the term "CIS" to cover both the
> older non-oxygen sensor version and the version with the ECU, oxygen
sensor,
> and frequency valve.  Both of these systems have a warm up/control
pressure
> regulator (that thing with two fuel lines that bolts to the front of the
> block) that is the primary fuel mixture control mechanism.  (Note: the
> frequency valve only fine tunes the mixture during warm running conditions
> to reduce emissions.)
>
> The Bentley for 85-93 Scirocco/Cabriolet uses the term "CIS-E " to refer
to
> the later version of CIS that has no warm-up regulator and no frequency
> valve, but instead uses a coolant temp sensor, oxygen sensor, and (an
> electronically controlled) differential pressure regulator to control
> mixture.  This version is also called KE-Jetronic and is used on both 8V
and
> 16V cars.
>
> Chris is right on the knock sensor issue (CIS-E does NOT mean your car
will
> also have a knock sensor), but may be wrong in saying "if there is a
> frequency valve on the fuel distributor than it is CIS-E".
>
> Here's my summary of the three main the versions of CIS used on A1 cars:
>
> FI System       CIS/E  ECU/Oxs  CPR   FV   DPR  KS
> ---------       -----  -------  ----  ---  ---  ---
> L-Jetronic (?)  CIS    No       Yes   No   No   No
> K-Jetronic      CIS    Yes      Yes   Yes  No   No
> KE-Jetronic     CIS-E  Yes      No    No   Yes  16V only
>
> CPR=Control Pressure (or "warm up") Regulator
> FV=Frequency Valve
> DPR=Differential Pressure Regulator
> KS=Knock Sensor
>
> I could be wrong on the FI system names, so please correct me if you've
got
> the Bosch FI service manuals handy.
>
> On a side note, KE-Motronic (not used on A1 cars) is also a form of
> CIS/CIS-E injection that is basically an upgraded version of knock sensing
> ignition and KE-Jetronic merged into a single engine management system.
> KE-Motronic looks similar to CIS-E injection and has TWO knock sensors on
> the block.
>
> Bradley
> 86 S16V 2.0l (KE-Motronic & TURBO install in progress)
>
> >Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 04:49:46 -0400 (EDT)
> >From: "Wm. Josiah Erikson" <josiah@bork.hampshire.edu>
> >Subject: Re: Idle Problems
> >
> >Well then the Bosch service manual is wrong. CIS most certainly had
> >frequency valves in many iterations. The difference in what you're
talking
> >about is the difference between various kinds of CIS. The system on the
8v
> >Scirocco, for instance, is KE-Jetronic. It has an oxy sensor brain, a
> >frequency valve, yadda yadda, but it is still referred to as CIS by all
> >the Bentleys I've ever seen.
> >
> >On Sat, 21 Aug 1999, Chris DeLong wrote:
> >>
> >> OK, let's clarify here: CIS is the same injection system as on a '78
> Rabbit.
> >> CIS-E does not necessarily require a knock sensor. If there is a
> frequency
> >> valve on the fuel distributor than it is CIS-E. If there is an
injection
> >> brain then it is CIS-E, if there is an oxygen sensor it is CIS-E. All
> this
> >> str.aight from the Bentley FI Bosch service manual
>
>
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>

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