Re: weight of a Mk1 Scirocco?

["I.Mannix" <mannix@secretignition.com>]

At 11:54 AM 9/6/98 -0400, balance wrote:
>Hello,
>
>   I recently posted to the newsgroup a question on
>how much a Jetta 2dr (A1) weighed, and got the figure of around 1900lbs.

Huh?  MAYBE with no interior, no glass, light wheels.  Maybe.  I replied to
that message - my friend's 4 door GLI weighs 2145(2147?).  Almost exactly
200# more than my Rabbit GTI.  His rear swaybar probably weighs 15 pounds,
plus the stock bar, which weighs 10 at most.  About the same as  a Neuspeed
28mm.  His rear stressbar weighs 10-13, 5-8 pounds more than a
Eurosport(but more effective, IMHO).  His wheels are 16 pounds, a smidge
more than stock, a bit more than ultralight wheels like my Welds(mine are
10 pounds).  He has stock seats.  No AC.  The doors weigh something, but
when the rear doors go away, the front doors get bigger - I don't think
they cancel each other out, but the front doors do weigh more on the two
door than the four door.  


>I also heard that an early Rabbit weighs about 50 lbs. less, and
>that a MK1 Scirocco weighs 1750lbs.-thats as light as a beetle!

Last time I saw a SciroccoI on the scales it was 2030 or so, with 18#
wheels, no AC, stock seats, BFG R1s, swaybars.  It was ~20# lighter than my
Rabbit at that time, which weighed 2050.  

My Rabbit weighs 1950 right now - it has a race seat(saves roughly 20
pounds), 10 pound wheels(stock wheels are 14-18#, depending who you ask),
15 pound tires(R1s are 20 pounds or so), no AC, no rear wiper, no rear
washer, smallest effective swaybars I can find, empty windshield washer
bottle in the front, no stereo, IE, I've made an effort to get the car
light.  The lightest I have seen is a 77 Rabbit at 1930.  There was weight
in that car which could go away - 50 pound rollbar, probably 40 pounds in
seats.  1830, and that's optimistic.  I'd be VERY surprised if a Mk1
Scirocco weighed 1750 with a stockish interior/glass/swaybars/stressbars.
I suppose if you took everything out, no bars, tiny wheels and tires, MAYBE
a Scirocco1 would weigh sub 1800 - but I doubt it.  The time we weighed my
Rabbit and a friend's Scirocco(84 GTI and 81S), they were within 20 pounds,
no idea how much gas was in each, but probably around 1/2 tank.  They are
similar, the Scirocco is a bit lighter, but on the order of 20-30 pounds,
NOT 200.  We did not weigh that Scirocco this time around(at the Tour, when
access to scales is easy), but I'd guess it to be 1930 or so.  We've done
basically the same things to our cars, and I'd guess his is about 20
pounds(at most) lighter than mine, just like it was last time.  

>
>Any truth to this?


Maybe.  If everything possible were taken out of a Scirocco1, it MIGHT
weigh under 1800.  A stock Scirocco1, at least an 81S, weighs around 2000,
maybe a touch under.  Add swaybars(a Neuspeed 28mm rear weighs 17#, front
weighs 10#), stressbars, big wheels and tires, well, it is tough to get the
car under 2000# with all that stuff and an interior.  I've only weighed DSP
legal cars - there is weight in the interiors, a stock GTI seat weighs 38#,
15# seats are not out of the question.  My rear seat only weighs 25
pounds(lighter than it looks).  Interior door panels are all within a
couple of pounds with the older cars(I am sure the contoured newer
doorpanels are heavier).  Early dash boards save 10 pounds or so - the 84
GTI dash is surprisingly heavy.  Sunroofs weigh something, I don't know how
much, but I cannot see them weighing 50# like some say.

**Opinion mode**

Lots of people speculate about things like sunroof weights.  Even car
weights, which are somewhat difficult to verify.  Over the past year, I
have weighed every little thing I've taken off my car.  If I take that
figure and subtract it from 2055, I get 1915 or so.  Weighed the car
recently, 1950.  For some reason, taking things of a known weight off,
weighing them, then weighing the car does NOT work, just like adding the
claims of performance gains from manufacturers.  The more I mess around
with my GTI, the more I suspect claims of car weights.  The 77 era cars are
NOT that much lighter than the later A1 cars, and I believe that the weight
lies in the stuff on the cars, not the cars themselves.  I've made many
efforts to get my car lighter(probably while eating pizza, go figure;),
I've watched with interest when other DSP VWs are on the scales - the 77s
are NOT considerably lighter than my 84, and what differentials there are
can be found in various things within the car itself.  A 77 Rabbit is a tad
lighter than an 84 GTI, but not THAT much.  

I have no idea how much a 75 Scirocco weighs, but I cannot imagine that it
weighs 1750. We might never know, as most of them are gone.  I do know that
the 81 weighs around 2000.  I don't know what they might have put on the 81
vs the 75 to add 250 pounds - swaybars add 30 pounds at most, 5 speed, eh,
10 pounds?  AC added 60, but the car I'm referring to has no AC, eh, don't
know.  I've never seen an early S1 on scales.  Only an 81, and from what I
have seen, there's no way I can imagine that the 75 weighs 1750.  

Mark Christiansen claims his 77 weighs 1900, if I am not mistaken - minimal
interior, rollcage.  The car is basically gutted, and it still weighs 150#
more than this magical(mythical?) number of 1750.  The EP Scirocco from
Putney VT has to weigh 1680, assuming he is using a 1.6 liter engine -
there is no ballast in that car, as far as I can see(meaning it did not go
below 1680 after he did the EP things).  That is a S2, though.  Even so,
I'd like to see it - I could be wrong, but I SINCERELY doubt that ANY S1
weighs 1750 in stock form.  MAYBE low 1900s.  Where did this 1750 figure
originate?  Is there a year added to it, or is it "all" S1s?  I can see the
earliest S1s being lighter than the later ones, but not THAT much.  Good luck!


I.Mannix  
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