Re: DSP Info, Shawn Meze

["I.Mannix" <mannix@secretignition.com>]

At 07:55 PM 9/1/98 EDT, Shawn C Meze wrote:

The rear seats, carpet, rear deck
>>and door panels all are crap and I would just trash them
>>if I could. What about trim details? Do I need this crap?
>
>to be legal in DSP, you must not remove the interior. You need it!

Right - but you can use any interior pieces from any 8v Scirocco.  I saved
about 2 pounds by taking out my huge armrest door handles and putting in
some out of a 79 Rabbit.  No, I am not kidding;).  I have the rear trim
pieces, doorpanel thingys for the backseat passenger, yet to put them
in(more important things to do to the Rabbit right now), but I will -
should be another couple of pounds.  Might be splitting fine hairs, but my
Rabbit is lighter than most!  1950 in race trim, weighed 2055 last year -
I've taken 100 pounds out of it, I can see another 50 if I get really
creative.  Ahh, to have the all-intimidating(and protest producing?)
18xx-pound Rabbit:).  You can actually save a good bit of weight with
careful updating/backdating - for Sciroccos, you can up/backdate any part
from any 8v car, as the rulebook reads "Scirocco 8v, all" or something to
that effect.  Note - this applies for Street Prepared only, not stock.  To
determine if something is legal on a Stock car, ask yourself "could I have
ordered this car as it sits with that part from the factory?"  If yes, it
is legal - this works most of the time, with obvious exceptions(front
swaybar, brake pads, cat back exhaust, IE, allowable modifications).  Also,
one has to be able to _prove_ the part in question came on the car - it is
up to the competitor, not the person who might protest you.  Let's say that
you have a Scirocco with no rear deck.  AFAIK, the Scirocco, at some
point(75?) came without a rear deck, so many autocrossers take them out.
Fine, I don't believe this to be illegal.  BUT, if Joe Schmoe decides he's
going to protest you, YOU have to be able to prove that the Scirocco came
without the deck at some point.  


>>How low can I go with springs?
>
>As low as you want!

Agreed, but keep in mind that there is such thing as too low.  Any spring,
shock or swaybar may be used in DSP, but you CAN lower the car too much.  I
like to have the control arms pretty close to parallel with the ground.
I've seen cars lowered WAY past that, and they tend to handle poorly.
Note- it is illegal to use spacers between the control arm and ball joint
in DSP, while legal in IT.  Pretty cool, I know a guy who has done it, and
it lets you get the car low without having the roll center plunge to the
depths(roll center is the axis about which the car rotates, center of
gravity is where the lateral forces "push" on - oversimplified in a big
way, but the greater distance between the CG and RC, the more leverage
lateral forces have on the car - if you lower the car too much, without
raising the spring rates, the car will roll WAY too much, MORE than if it
were set with the c-arms parallel).  I've not decided how low is too low,
but the roll center does drop at a much faster rate than the center of
gravity, that I know.  I also know that slammed VWs don't handle well at
all.  There's a balance in there somewhere, we're pretty close, but I'm not
_convinced_ that we're right(we being Kevin and I.  Most people think our
suspension settings are odd, but we're both large and grumpy looking, so no
one says anything to us about it;)

>
>>Before I start trashing I need to know what I can trash and what
>>I need to keep or replace.
>>
>>Doug
>>87 16v silver Scirocco "GTX"
>>81 8v red Scirocco MK1 soon to be in DSP.
>
>
>You can remove nothing from the interior AFIAK. At least, thats how I
>always understood it. Mannix might know (Might? HEH!) more about this and
an give more details on the can's and can nots. 

Hey, is that some veiled "Mannix has no life beyond autocrossing" comment?
Laugh.  I think I basically covered it above.

>missing the rear shelf which, would be protestable. 

I don't know - did'nt the Mk1 Sciroccos come without for a while?  AFAIK,
they did, so you can take yours out.  Hmm, does that mean a single wiper
conversion is actually legal on 83&up Mk2s?  Might.  Laugh.

Theres other things
>that are by the rules, protestable. (16V tail lights, 16V antenna,

Ehh, that's superweenie.  As long as it has taillights which fit, I don't
care what they look like!

 and
>other stuff, not to mention the Euro bumpers.)

Yeah, you know I don't like the Eurobumpers.  Autocross is a funny sport,
though - because the protest system is competitor driven, someone might
compete for years with illegal bumpers, but not get protested, because
those he beat did'nt care.  Then, he beats someone who cares - booted.  It
makes the protestor seem snivelly, but in all honesty, I don't care what is
illegal, as long as it is not on my car and I am beating it.  Shawn knows
his bumpers are illegal, and if no one cares, great!  We allow a local ITB
car to run wide 13" wheels in DSP(IT cars have to be 100% legal in their IT
class, and ITB can't use 13x7" wheels), but we've agreed that it is "ok."
What if he starts running away from us?  Who knows.  I won't protest, if he
ever beats me, it is not because he has illegal wheels.  The more I do this
stuff, the more I find that people like to talk about what is illegal;
protests are really pretty infrequent around here.  We've had one whiny one
at a local event that I can think of.  I showed up with no rear bumper for
a while, no one cared(bumper was bent, waiting to find a new one).
Nationals is a different story, of course.  I'm going to try to stay very
far away from protest type discussions at Nationals; I can't be thinking
about his car when I'm trying to drive mine!  Anyhow.  Leave the interior
in - mix and match Scirocco 8v pieces to find the best configuration, to
hell with what it looks like!  


I.Mannix
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