Re: [racing] "handling feel"

[skerocdriver@juno.com (Shawn C Meze)]

On Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:11:38 -0700 Benton Yoshida
<byoshida@zygote.hsc.usc.edu> writes:
>Hey all:
>-snip-
>understeer in my car under normal conditions.  I realize that these
things
>are best learned autocrossing but for a number of reasons I don't
foresee
>that in my crystal ball.



Come on out to one of the cal club events and you can co-drive my car.
(As soon as I get some autox tires again. Im currently parked from autox
action.)



>What cues are you guys/gals tuning into to determine whether the
>car is under/oversteering and when to apply correction?  


For me, my main input of data from the car comes in thru my extreme lower
back. (my butt. well, not my butt exactly, but more like at the tail
bone.) Secondary is what I see the car doing, what I feel the car doing
thru the steering wheel and what I hear (and sometimes SMELL the car
doing but, nevermind.) All of these come into play to tell me what the
car is doing and gives me foresight as to what the car will/wont be doing
if I do/dont do something.
I think some people are born with this "sense". Some just learn it early
on, (Big wheels are a good teaching tool!) some are taught to feel it and
others just never get it their whole life. 
My dad would be one of these who dont get it. I can tell alot about a
cars mechanical condition just by driving it. My dad bought a 96'
Chrysler Concord. (AKA, Pattons revenge.) Last spring when my family was
dropping like flies, I co-drove the car from SD to Colorado and while in
the trip, told my dad that the car needed new rear shocks, this/that/the
other needed to be fixed too. he said it was just fine ect and ignored
me. ("This isn't a little race car, its a comfortable touring car and its
just fine"!) Heh, whatever dad. 
So, about 2 weeks ago he takes it in for its 60,000 service and they tell
him exactly what I told him. Now suddenly he wants to know HOW I know so
much about his car without having never opened the hood. I tried to
explain it to him but he got this Homer look on his face and I could
sense he was thinking about bacon or something. (MMmm bacon <drool>.)




>Can you really feel the car's rotation apart from that due to steering? 



I can, yes. As I said before, the sensation comes from the seat. When the
rear end steps out, you feel its rotation, even tho its only a little
tiny feeling, its just a feeling that is not, (shall we say?) normal. 
There's 2 kinds of feelings. One is when the car is sticking and
rotating, the other is the feeling that the rear is no longer sticking as
well and well, it just feels like the ass end is wanting to come around.
I think the only real way to know this sensation is to spin the car a few
times. I got lots of practice recently with my stock rear tires on my Roc
at the last autox. I finished DFL but I got to do some sideways action
while in 3rd gear. The school for me was to save it at that speed. I only
did it once but the experience for me was very valuable. Rear traction is
important. 
Wenzels car was a new sensation for me when I drove it last spring. His
car rotates almost in a way that feels like its going to spin. When you
feel like you have passed the threshold of turning to now spinning, it
straightens up and goes down the straight. It was truly an amazing
driving experience for me. A little more seat time and i would of beat
Wenzels time too! :) 


>How do you know that the frame is flexing?  


I feel it. Might sound ZEN or simply funny, but you become apart of the
car and when the car goes thru corners, you can feel the front end twist
slightly, then the rear end flex and eventually, you feel exactly where
the car is flexing at. 
Seat time is the key to this feeling. Call it familiarity if you like,
but either way, that's how you get a good feel for the car. 


>Are you really feeling flex or just interpreting squeaks and rattles as
flex?  


Nope, I feel it. 



>	Having grown up in SoCal and being a strict urban nightcrawler,
I
>have no experience with snow, gravel, or ice, just pure asphalt,
>occasionally wet.  Is this a deficiency in my driver education?  This is
>partly why I'm hesitant about adding sway bars.  Why add them if they're
>only going to make the car heavier and the wallet lighter?
>I'd appreciated any inputs besides the chorus of, "go autoX!"
>Thanks, benton-----


You can be a great driver and never have driven on snow, ice, gravel or
cobblestone. Any car will handle the best in dry pavement conditions, so
in a sense, your driving experience has been more consistent and as a
result, your driving could be better. Now throw your butt back east and
your screwed. Driving on those other kinds of conditions require a
different attitude and driving style. Just look at all of the moron CA
drivers who cant drive in the rain.hell, ive seen the sprinklers get
blown onto the freeway and people spin and crash because its wet. Why?
(Other than the fact they're all morons.) Because they dont alter they're
driving to accommodate the changed conditions. 90 mph 3 feet from the
other cars bumper just doesn't work well when its wet. 

So, since I gave some input, do I get to finish up with a chorus or two??
:)


              Shawn Meze
86' Jetta GLi           82' Scirocco GTi
The Fastest, Quickest, Cleanest and
best looking Scirocco in all of San Diego!
http://www.Geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1308/index.htm

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