Re: Sway Bar Synopsis (and a question) GET SRS SUSPENSION!!!

[mannix@secretignition.com (I. Mannix)]

I basically agree with him.  This XHVex guy seems to buy right into the
SRS philosophy, if you go to Shine's page and really read it, all they
really say is "why would you want to put a bar on a car with 65% of its
weight on the front wheels?"  That's about as far as their "theory"
goes(or went) last I checked - maybe they've added things since I last
looked at the page, but if not, all they really said is "We're right. 
You're wrong."  Typical Bostonians, bunch of bastards;).


I.Mannix(<---born in Cambridge, MA)


In article <35da2462.3621706@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, RandyWal@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>xhvex@aol.com (XHVex) wrote:
>>I have driven a "properly" setup car. 
>
> But have you driven a properly setup *FWD Volkswagen*?  If you've
>spent any time in a VW with big swaybars and a conventionally
>set up suspension you'd find your own setup somewhat lacking. 
>I've done lots of back-to-back testing of various setups on my GTi
>and in every case a big front bar gave the best handling.
>
>
>>The front sway bar is not appropriate for my car at least a Corrado. 
>
> Sure it's appropriate for your VW regardless of what you've done
>to the suspension if anything.   Even a bone-stock VW benefits
>greatly with the simple addition of a bigger front swaybar. My 86 GLi
>is proof positive as well as dozens of other stock VWs running big
>front bars only.   Olaf Brescia installed a big front bar only on his
>beautiful Corrado VR6 and reported that it worked wonders.  Many
>other VW drivers can attest to the effectiveness of a big front bar. 
>
>
>>You can check out SRSs' suspensions and theory
>>behind them on their WWW page www.srsvw.com look under suspension.
>
> I'm completely familiar with Shine's theory and while it works on a 
>full-on road-race car with super stiff 600 lb front springs,  it's not
>the best setup for a street or autocross application.  Their system
>doesn't address the severe body lean that VWs have, it only serves
>to destabilize the rear while ignoring the real problem which is
>adverse camber change due to excessive body lean. This can
>only be controlled by keeping the *front* of the car as flat as
>possible and that is best served by using a big front swaybar
>with stock or sport springs for a good ride.   
>
> Sean Person had a Shine Real Street suspension on his
>A3 8v GTi and that thing leaned over almost as much as a 
>stock A3 GTi, and his tires were rolling over onto the sidewalls.
>He later tried the big swaybar approach and the car was totally
>transformed and now corners much flatter and is way faster.  His
>is only one example of a big front bar improving handling. There
>are plenty others here who've done it with much success.  Allen B,
>Mike Potter, Gustave Stroes,  Jake Russel,  Olaf,  just to name
>a few :-)  
>
>
>>I am sure some VW's may benefit from a front sway but not a Corrado 
>>where over 60% of the weight is over the front wheels?....
>>Steve
>
> That 60% weight bias is *exactly* why you need the swaybar up
>*front*,  that's where the weight is and that's where all the work
>is being done.  The swaybar controls all this weight transfer up
>front and keeps the front tires' contact patch intact and that's
>where the increased front traction comes from.  Trust me, it's
>been tried and true.  I've gotten dozens of VW drivers to add
>a bigger front swaybar to their VW and NONE of em went back
>to a smaller bar or NFB.  Everyone who got back to me said the
>big front bar did indeed work better.  
>
>
>>The rear sway INCREASES front traction.
>
> No, it *Decreases Rear* traction and that's why it induces 
>oversteer.  You cannot increase traction at one end of the
>car by tuning something at the opposite end. Think about it :-)
>
> Increase the roll stiffness at the front of the car First,  then
>balance out the handling with the rest of the suspension
>including a bigger rear bar if needed.  Both my cars oversteer
>on command despite having big front swaybars.  
>
> Randy
> 85 GTi (race springs w/25mm front and 28mm rear bars)
> 86 GLi (stock springs w/22mm front bar only) 
>
>
>
>
> Randy
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